Hero folds?

[Xhad]

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i didn't say we're not beat the majority of the time, i said raisefolding the turn is horrible

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why?

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Because we're WA/WB against basically the entire field and hero's incorrect flop check has kept the pot small.

[JaneTheHot]

How come we are beating into 3 people as a pure bluff?

[KitCloudkicker]

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How come we are beating into 3 people as a pure bluff?

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its not a bluff when you have the best hand. which you will frequently enough to make this bet profitable.

and you want people with random crap like 89s out of the hand.

you probably also get a low PP to fold.

[James.]

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i didn't say we're not beat the majority of the time, i said raisefolding the turn is horrible

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why?

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Because we're WA/WB against basically the entire field and hero's incorrect flop check has kept the pot small.

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no. we aren't "WA/WB" the entire field. gutshots, draws to splits, and two outers can have a cumulative effect of making you less of a favorite than you may realize.

factor in that the pot isn't *small*. there's over 5BB in it when villain bets the turn. getting the pot HU against someone drawing to a gutshot, a split or 2 outs isn't a bad outcome. if, by our raising, they want to fold their equity in this situation, it's a pretty damn good thing for us.

[Xhad]

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no. we aren't "WA/WB" the entire field. gutshots, draws to splits, and two outers can have a cumulative effect of making you less of a favorite than you may realize.

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If 3 2-outers call, there is also a cumulative effect of much more money going into the pot than a worse hand could ever contribute heads-up.

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factor in that the pot isn't *small*. there's over 5BB in it when villain bets the turn.

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That's still much smaller than the chances of any worse hand overtaking ours.

[Xhad]

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How come we are beating into 3 people as a pure bluff?

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On a KK7 rainbow board you often have the best hand because everyone else missed the flop

It it were like Q96 with a flush draw showing a check becomes a lot better

[BigBadBabar]

also i think not betting the flop is fine some of the time

[ProfessorBen]

bet/fold the flop.

call the turn.

[James.]

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If 3 2-outers call, there is also a cumulative effect of much more money going into the pot than a worse hand could ever contribute heads-up.

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problem is it's plenty often they have more than a two outer.

if you're up against 3 gutshots that's around 26% in cumulative equity. if your raise mangages to fold another ace you gain the equity of 2 king outs, 4 queen outs and 2 ace outs(that's 17% equity). if your raise folds out a pp, a gutshot and another ace you've gained their 30% in equity. this means you win more often, which means your aggressive play puts more money in your pocket because you don't get drawn out on as often. if an ace calls down, you still gain 2 more bb's a huge % of the time. if a lone pp or gutter or even all of them call you gain tremendously.

on the flip side, planning on folding to a 3bet is giving up 5% of your equity the times your against trips or a FH. still, when the pot gets a certain size, it is more to your benefit to win it immediately. if it was 4bb or less i wouldn't mind calling as much. make it 4.5bb+ and it's more worth fighting over(if your holding warrants it). i will say, 6bb pot is an autoraise. the 5.25bb pot is closer. when it gets that close, take the route that will win it the most often.

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That's still much smaller than the chances of any worse hand overtaking ours.

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not much smaller. if we call, we offer 6.25bb immediately to the next caller. of course with each caller the odds offered get better and better. this has the net effect of making them play closer to correctly, because everybody put in one bet into a pot of 8.25bb on the turn. if they have a cumulative of 5-6 outs we probably come out better winning it immediately on the turn at 5.25bb.

[JacksonTens]

chking behind that specific flop vs these specific opponents isnt bad at all. Hero is no doubt behind and will not fold a better hand. 100% c-bet is for spastics.

I think you played it fine, but I'm also sure you played it that way for completely different reasons as to why I may play it that way [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

SERIOUSLYx3

JT