Whats in a Range

[pfkaok]

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The bottom line is that you profit by deceiving your opponents about the range of hands you could have at any time, not just by playing the hand you are holding as though it were something else.

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Well. I think thats only the case when you're playing good players who will be able to correctly put you on a range if you're not being deceptive. its why game theory becomes more important when your opponents don't make as many awful mistakes.

against some players, like tightie mcnuts, and the loosie, you don't need much deception or game theory, you just need to play in a way that exploits their mistakes to their fullest. these people are putting you on some bizzare range b/c thats the way they think, not b/c they've observed your play and have a good line on you. these players are usually horrible at adjusting too, so most times you can get away with exploiting their mistakes over and over before they begin to catch on and adjust.

So, I think, the bottom line is that you need to get good at spotting which players put you on horribly innacurate ranges (either WAY to big, or WAY to small) and then exploit the mistake as much as possible. the toughest part is figuring out how long it takes them to start adjusting, and then figuring out just how much they adjust.

[Foucault]

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I think thats only the case when you're playing good players who will be able to correctly put you on a range if you're not being deceptive. its why game theory becomes more important when your opponents don't make as many awful mistakes.

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I see what you're saying, but in a theoretical sense, bad players are still deceived about your range, it just doesn't take much work on your part. But you make money because they make a mistake against your range, not against the hand you happen to have, as the FTP would have it.

[Che]

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So where else can you get information about what range Villain will assign to you? For one thing, you can watch how he plays his hands. If he never raises a draw, he probably won't put you on a draw when you raise. If he slow-plays his sets, he won't expect you to have a set when you push.

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Nice.

Very true, but not often mentioned.

Later,
Che

[mts]

it's been awhile but isn't this what the theory of poker is?

[Ansky]

Thats really not true...

Sunday afternoons aren't the norm-- it just happens to be the day for tournaments.

[Roman]

Great post, this is the most common mistake I see players make nowadays.

[elmitchbo]

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So where else can you get information about what range Villain will assign to you? For one thing, you can watch how he plays his hands. If he never raises a draw, he probably won't put you on a draw when you raise. If he slow-plays his sets, he won't expect you to have a set when you push.

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Nice.

Very true, but not often mentioned.

Later,
Che

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i think this is the most insightful part of the whole piece. it makes complete sense. i'm embarrassed to say that i'm guilty of this line of reasoning. any time i'm faced with a tough call, and i have no info on the player, i automatically start thinking 'well, if i were in his position what would i have rasied with?'

that's obviously the wrong way to go about it, becuase he isn't me, but it seems like the most logical starting point in the analysis. i try to avoid this 'trap', but i think the average online player doesn't even realize the 'trap' exists.

your opponent will most likely assign HIS range to your hand in any given situation. a tight player doesn't just call less because he needs to have good cards, he calls less because he projects his line of tight thinking onto his opponent.

that feels a little ground breaking to me, because i never really thought of it. very good post. maybe post of the month material.

[BPA234]

For me, this has the most impact when either calling late position raises in the small blind or when raising from late and getting a blind caller.

[MLG]

Foucault got at a lot of what I was getting at (in terms of my problem with the FTOP) and about what deception, and hand reading means.

My other point is how you create your own ranges. When you put somebody on a range its a static proposition. You are saying at this time there is a percentage chane of A, a percentage chance of B, and a percentage chance of C. When you are creating your own ranges you need to be thinking actively, not statically. You cant only think I have a set/flush draw how should I play it, you need to think I have a set/flush draw, how frequently should I bet/CR/checkcall with it in order to create ranges that deceive my opponent. Quite frequently then the answer to these questions is not you should to A, B or C, but rather you should do A X%, B Y% and C Z%, at least when you are playing against players who think about what you are holding.