WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 12.)

[DarkForceRising]

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WSEX GM, do NOT switch to contributed rakeback. This is NOT going to help more people join, it is just going to chase away the regulars and serious players like the people who post here and constantly tell people they should play on WPEX. Use that 25% to market the hell out of the site. Market it as being "paid to play poker" for example. Just market it better. Just market it. That's all you need to do.


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Yeah, no [censored] man. [censored] Tuff Fish and company.

Still waiting for some love on my business card suggestion. Had a couple of prospects hanging on my every word tonight, but in spite of my persuasive charm (one just signed up with Bodog- the other Absolute- no deposits- yet anyway) it is tough to close a deal over a quick smoke break.

[BuddyQ]

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Why more people aren't getting on the site is beyond me.

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This is apparently true, since its obvious why traffic sucks.

[BuddyQ]

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Why do people think they can't make interest off your money unless it's in the form of held rakeback? Every second that your money is in their accounts, regarldess of whether it's held rakeback or withdrawable, they're making interest on it. And that's great - I want them to turn a profit. But it's strange to me how this seems to be secretive or something, and for that matter that most people don't understand it.

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Thanks for pointing this out, I hadn't thought about it in this manner before. You are right, they make the interest until the cash is withdrawn, so it does not matter when they credit the rake. I thought it mattered, but it doesn't.

[mjkidd]

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all of you who are saying the reason wpex isn't doing better is because of the "structure" of the rake or whatever...are completely clueless. The fish don't care nor pay attention to that stuff. The RB is awesome for everyone, even at 75% - nits, gamblers, what have you - it's a lot harder to go broke with huge rakeback than on your typical site.

The software is completely fine for me and I play 8 hours a day. Cash outs are fine. Even the nature of the games are fine - they can be tough at higher limits, but mostly the games are full of players who are too loose, too aggressive, or too predictable.

The ONLY problem is the traffic is not very heavy. Why more people aren't getting on the site is beyond me. It's still the most profitable gambling venture for skilled small stakes and mid stakes limit players on the internet bar none.

WSEX GM, do NOT switch to contributed rakeback. This is NOT going to help more people join, it is just going to chase away the regulars and serious players like the people who post here and constantly tell people they should play on WPEX. Use that 25% to market the hell out of the site. Market it as being "paid to play poker" for example. Just market it better. Just market it. That's all you need to do.

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First of all, if switching to 75% rakeback didn't drive away all the regulars, then the more minor change of switching to contributed rakeback won't drive them away, either.

And it is not clear to me that switching to contributed rakeback will put the skilled player at a disadvantage. He'll be able to play more hands profitably with this change in structure. This will promote a looser, more freewheeling game that may prove to be attractive to some sportsbettors, who might not relish sitting in tight, boring games.

I think that the real issue is that you will be forced to change your style of play, and you're worried that you won't be able to adapt to playing with a double-digit VPIP.

[Palomino]

Who really thinks these games are loose and boring? I think I'm probably considered one of the tighter players (maybe I'm wrong) on the low limit games but my vp is closer to 30 (on 6-max anyway), and I know I would still lose money going to contributed (as this happened at AP and I lost money). I don't see myself changing my style of play just to make a few more bucks in rakeback because I would likely lose more on the tables than I would make up for in rakeback.

Also, I do believe we have lost quite a few of the regulars. Unless the aces always win promo is going we can't even keep 2 3/6 tables going anymore.

[BuddyQ]

A WSEX parable:

Businessman owns a premium wine store. He wants to increase sales, so he acquires the building next door with the intention to create a happening night spot. The theory being that some of the people frequenting the swinging night spot will come to the wine store and buy some premium wine.

However, he wants to create a unique night spot, a place free from the usual unsavoriness of bars/clubs. So he bars alcoholics, drug users, smokers, gamblers, rowdy characters, and other low-lives from entering his night club. He now has a wholesome, friendly, and safe night club.

Unfortunately, there are only a handful of folks interested in night spots who pass muster to frequent his bar, so soon he has to institute a cover charge. Now even less people come. In the end, his bar is shut down.

Also, he did not increase sales at his wine shop.

GG.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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A WSEX parable:

Businessman owns a premium wine store. He wants to increase sales, so he acquires the building next door with the intention to create a happening night spot. The theory being that some of the people frequenting the swinging night spot will come to the wine store and buy some premium wine.

However, he wants to create a unique night spot, a place free from the usual unsavoriness of bars/clubs. So he bars alcoholics, drug users, smokers, gamblers, rowdy characters, and other low-lives from entering his night club. He now has a wholesome, friendly, and safe night club.

Unfortunately, there are only a handful of folks interested in night spots who pass muster to frequent his bar, so soon he has to institute a cover charge. Now even less people come. In the end, his bar is shut down.

Also, he did not increase sales at his wine shop.

GG.

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Except that WSEX caters to poker players and sports bettors, so the parable regarding the exclusion of degenerates seems quite out of place.
I don't think they've set their hopes too high, especially based on what i know about these two groups.

Or Are you saying that they should open a free escort service and porn shop, as well?

If so, I think its a bold request, but I second the idea. I don't think it will increase traffic, but it would be nice to be able to spend my FPPs on something practical.

I assume you are referring to the exclusion of HUDS.
Maybe, But most of the regulars use HUDS at other sites, so not every HUDder is sitting on the sideline moping. I am not sure what impact it would have, but I'm all for it.

Not as key as the escort service for FPPs, but servicable.

[Mitch Evans]

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I think that the real issue is that you will be forced to change your style of play, and you're worried that you won't be able to adapt to playing with a double-digit VPIP.

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Yeah, that's nice. There's maybe only one person full ring that has a single digit vpip. But, let's take your example at face value. What you're saying is, people won't be able to adjust and thus won't profit from the games. Okay. So, some regulars (nits/weak-tights, whatever) have been dropping a little bit off the site. More will drop in the coming weeks. Then, contributed rakeback, you say won't make any regulars leave, but in the same breath you say "you're worried that you won't be able to adapt" Since there's a lot of people that don't want the rake structure to change, there must be a lot of people that "won't be able to adapt" therefore, the numbers will drop even more.

All that you will have left are the best of the best players- solid aggressive players. But that's okay because now 10,000 fish will join the site because a 25% cut in rakeback and a site with solid aggressive winning players is what they were waiting for the whole time this past year.

It's going to take a while before the numbers level off. The first 5k added tourney had over 400 players, and the following week, (since the 25% cut), there were only 100 players. Expect to see maybe 80 tonight. This is a direct result of people making less in rakeback since there's a $75 minimum rakeback to play.

Again, I say make the changes more slowly. Get a player base first. Use some of the 25% to promote the site and get the name out there better. Right now they have the best deal on the net: 75% rakeback; 5k added micro buyin tourneys 3 times a week; aces cracked promo 4 times a week; guaranteed tourneys and freerolls as well. That should be enough to elicit a big player base but some how contributed rakeback, which most of the player base is against, is going to grow the site?

Really, many players won't know where to loosen up to make contributed rake a better proposition; they will loosen up incorrectly and wind up losing more/winning less than had they continued to play their normal game thus resulting in more people leaving.

Remember when Party used to advertize on TV with dot COM ads before the gov stepped in and banned .com ads? Imagine the player base at wsex if .com ads were still available now. With what they have going on, they would have all the players on the net with little advertizing if the advertizing climate were the same as 5 years ago.

Things are tougher now, but it still comes down to advertizing, not little things like contributed/dealt rakeback. One thing you can count on though, is on top of the 25% cut, the player base they have now thinks contributed rake is a big change and will most likely leave.

Also, I would say, what's the harm in opening the flood gates and allowing huds, names, and 8 tables? Banning it certainly didn't work over the year. They are now making 25% of the rake and there are a lot of people here that would switch sites if they did, so why not try it for a while? They could always change it back if they don't like doubling their player base and doubling the amount of tables in play.

[mjkidd]

WSEX does not allow HUDs and 8 tables for the same reason it is switching to contributed rakeback: they aim to provide a fun service to their sportsbettors at a small cost. Most sportsbettors would prefer to play a loose, freewheeling type of game, and banning Huds, contributed rakeback, and limiting the number of tables one can play all promote this style of play. And, they don't want to give any extra advantage to solid players. How is this difficult to understand?

[BuddyQ]

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WSEX does not allow HUDs and 8 tables for the same reason it is switching to contributed rakeback: they aim to provide a fun service to their sportsbettors at a small cost. Most sportsbettors would prefer to play a loose, freewheeling type of game, and banning Huds, contributed rakeback, and limiting the number of tables one can play all promote this style of play. And, they don't want to give any extra advantage to solid players. How is this difficult to understand?

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Yes, that was the theory, and it is very easy to understand. Unfortunately, it is fundamentally flawed.