Official Blather about ZeeJustin Till The End of Time Thread

[BusterAMG]

While I stand in the minority in this forum in terms of questioning the true harm of ZJ's actions to Party (they are waaay overblown by both Party and most of the micro-stakes, jealous posters here), the punishment itself is very just. If it is deemed that ZJ's actions are in fact a crime of such proportions as it is said, he definitely deserves to lose 100k, which is actually less than his Party multi winnings.

Further, no one has even closely ruined ZJ's life or way of making money. He will obviously play on Party as much if not more than he did before, but, like all shady criminals, will have hurdles to step over, and will have a harder time playing than the regular person. Skill cannot be taken away though, and in my short time reading ZJ's opinions on this site and his blog, I have no doubt he will have little trouble making money even if he does quit poker. Talent just doesn't disappear, even as much as all the IQ <100 people wish here.

Myself being 18, and having made a shitload of money from poker for someone my age, I easily realize that there are much greater things to achieve than demolishing fish in poker. It is the best opportunity to become Top 1% in earnings for the teen age group that exists right now, but I would be very surprised if most of the people here my age, including the ones currently better than me, didn't have non-poker plans for the future. It is simply too dull a way to live life long-term for people in ZJ's IQ bracket.

[Soul Rebel]

Thanks man, haven't been around much the last couple days.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

30 years old :-).

WTF give somebody who tries to justify his actions a 2nd chance? Personally, I never do that. When people realize they were wrong, I most oftenly do it, of course. BUT, here you have to remember that he has been aware of a cheating mechanism for a long time and instead of reporting the flaw to the sites, he deliberately uses it. That's intent, that's cynicism, and cynical people you have to treat with a hard hand (not understanding); since a hard hand is the only language cynical people understand. The apologists are incredibly naive, in my opinion.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]

Indy, I love your work on the STT board, but I just cant see where you are coming from here. It is all about responsibility.

ZJ admits he played multi-accounts, including having more than one seat at a single table.
ZJ exploited this edge in MTTs to cash big money prizes.
The punishment of forfieture of the cash prize and banning from the system are appropriate penalties for this level of cheating.

You preach mercy and I agree that mercy is appropriate, but one must take responsiblity for ones actions, and where punishment is meted out, one must accept the punishment.

I would not personally malign ZJ, the person, I would simply not allow someone who cheats in this way to get a 'free pass' to continue doing it.

Todd


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that he messed up and should be punished, I guess I'm more concerned with the degree of the punishment. I've learned something through this thread, however. I've learned that poker players do not mess around with cheating, no matter how minor it is. Another poster asked me two questions about my finances. Yes, I do support myself but not from poker. Poker has always been a side income for me that I spend on vacations, food, etc etc...I guess I could feel differently if this were the source of my daily meals but it isn't.

Hey, let's punish the guy. I myself have never cheated because I don't want to win that way. I want to feel like I've accomplished something when I win at poker because, quite frankly, I make lots of $$ in my regular life and poker isn't just about cash to me. Its more about competition.

Let's punish Zee. Hell, let me kick his ass or shoot him in the foot with my new piece, but let's not screw up his entire poker life. He's worked hard, it appears, to build his reputation. He screwed up. Now he's gotta pay for the crime but Party poker certaintly has not thought through the extent of the crime and how to assess the punishment have they? I'm a softie I guess, but I'd like to see him give us all some $$$ personally or something and give him a chance to make it right.

Indy

[claudenm]

[ QUOTE ]

1. These cusswords (phuck, chit) are part of our culture and shouldn't have ever been banned in the first place.

2. Party Poker took Zee's money for obvious reasons. They didn't do it to protect the integrity of the game because they won't make it public to anyone. They took his $$ because It is within in their rights as per sections 19 and 21 of the ToS agreement that ZeeJustin agreed to when he signed up to play on party poker. .



[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Fishy McDonk]

[ QUOTE ]
It is simply too dull a way to live life long-term for people in ZJ's IQ bracket.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree. I think he should so something exciting like testing parachutes.

[RJ!]

[ QUOTE ]
If it were up to me, ZeeJustin would never be allowed to use a computer again.

[/ QUOTE ]

which makes me glad that you probably will never make a decision that affects me, or other logical human beings. fwiw, i think they should give him the money back that they cant prove was gained from cheating. im sure he will play again...

rj

[LozColbert]

After reading this thread Indiana, you seem to have disregarded the deterrence effect.

1. We see how easy it was for ZJ and others to get away with cheating at both major sites for a long time. So cheating has happened in the past online.

2. Given advances in technology and the huge incentive to cheat at online poker, there will always be a war between cheaters who come up with new ways of cheating online (bots with artificial intelligence, etc) and the security of online poker sites.

This is a situation which mandates a large deterrence effect. PokerStars' decision is beyond absurd. If you let people knowingly cheat and then you give them any of their money back, then you are not deterring future cheaters.

PokerStars' high-profile decision to let ZJ keep his money is as much of a risk to online poker as any US Congress legislation. Because this story will continue to spread for a long, long time. In 10 years, I'll be walking into Lake Charles card rooms and hearing people talk about it.

[jb9]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's punish Zee. Hell, let me kick his ass or shoot him in the foot with my new piece, but let's not screw up his entire poker life. He's worked hard, it appears, to build his reputation. He screwed up. Now he's gotta pay for the crime but Party poker certaintly has not thought through the extent of the crime and how to assess the punishment have they? I'm a softie I guess, but I'd like to see him give us all some $$$ personally or something and give him a chance to make it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if he were to apologize and ask to be given a second chance he would get one.

There would be suspicion and some hard feelings, and many people would never trust him, but as long as he gave reasonable assurances that he understood what he did was wrong, showed some evidence of contrition, made whatever amends he could, and gave his word that he was going to move forward playing an honest game, he would get a chance.

Not everyone would play with him, but enough people would that it wouldn't matter. No one says you have to like the people you are trying to take money from anyway.

I agree it would be sad if the result of all of this was for him to abandon the game completely (unless he did so through a conscious choice to pursue something that has greater appeal for him) or, much worse, invest his brains and energy into becoming technically sophisticated enough to cheat without being caught in the future.

[Fishy McDonk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it were up to me, ZeeJustin would never be allowed to use a computer again.

[/ QUOTE ]

which makes me glad that you probably will never make a decision that affects me, or other logical human beings. fwiw, i think they should give him the money back that they cant prove was gained from cheating. im sure he will play again...

rj

[/ QUOTE ]


which makes me glad you aren't a casino executive (or are you? Is this Lee?)