QQ in 3bet pot, facing shove on flop (NL50)

CalledDownLight · #1 05-31-2007, 11:46 PM

Villian is multi-tabling LAG, possibly 2p2. Runs about 21/11 over around 1k hands. I haven't done anything out of line in 2 or so orbits I've been at table and haven't seen anything out of line from him. He's been playing pretty aggressive, but hasn't 3bet since I've been at table (about 20 hands). Do I call this or does he always show up with AA or KK here? If this is clear one way or the other them please let me know what the worst hand you call with is. Feel free to comment on preflop or flop raise, but they seem pretty standard to me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($57.50)
MP1 ($101)
MP2 ($59)
MP3 ($18.35)
CO ($50)
Hero ($62.70)
SB ($14.30)
Villian ($73.55)
UTG ($49.45)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
5 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, Villian raises to $8, CO folds, Hero calls $5.50.

Flop: ($16.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets $10, Hero raises to $25, Villian raises to $65.55, Hero ???

Chuck D · #2 05-31-2007, 11:48 PM

I don't raise the flop

Panthro · #3 06-01-2007, 12:04 AM

not to sound like a prick, but ask yourself *why* you're raising the flop if you're unsure of how to respond to a shove and you'll realize why it's not the greatest play.

CalledDownLight · #4 06-01-2007, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not to sound like a prick, but ask yourself *why* you're raising the flop if you're unsure of how to respond to a shove and you'll realize why it's not the greatest play.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you would only raise the flop with air or something that you will call a shove?

Panthro · #5 06-01-2007, 12:31 AM

sorta, yeah. If I'm raising for value because I think I'm ahead of his range, or to induce a push because I think he'll stack off lightly, then it's an easy call(of the shove). If I'm raising as a bluff or "for information" or "to find out if he has AK", then it's an easy fold.

Calling the flop is much better. Since most TAGs at this level won't religiously double barrel AK, you can call the flop and fold to a turn bet knowing you likely folded the second best hand.

CalledDownLight · #6 06-01-2007, 12:43 AM

This guy will definitely 2 barrel AK and I know that so what is our turn plan after smooth calling? Guess I should have put that in the OP. But if his 3bet range is 1010+ and AK and he will 2 barrel the whole range sometimes and other times he will check the whole range (by that I mean he will 2 barrel AK some and check turn with AA some) what would my turn plan be as we are still stuck right in the middle of his range. This is against a compotent NL50 player is what I'm trying to say.

Panthro · #7 06-01-2007, 12:58 AM

what you're asking depends entirely on villain's value bettting/bluffing frequencies.

For example, if his 3-betting range is TT+/AK, and he double barrels his entire range 100% of the time, then I'd call the flop and also call a non A/K turn, since we're ahead more often then not (pokerstove it if you don't believe me).

bottomset · #8 06-01-2007, 12:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This guy will definitely 2 barrel AK and I know that so what is our turn plan after smooth calling? Guess I should have put that in the OP. But if his 3bet range is 1010+ and AK and he will 2 barrel the whole range sometimes and other times he will check the whole range (by that I mean he will 2 barrel AK some and check turn with AA some) what would my turn plan be as we are still stuck right in the middle of his range. This is against a compotent NL50 player is what I'm trying to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

let him shove with TT, JJ AK then

raising just gets the hands you beat to fold which can be fine but if he's going to put in more money with hands you beat let him

CalledDownLight · #9 06-01-2007, 01:03 AM

If I unerstand this correctly you are both saying that this raise should basically always be air? I'm just trying to clarify (sorry if its coming across badly). This is definitely not my standard play and thats part of the reason I had a tough decision.

bottomset · #10 06-01-2007, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I unerstand this correctly you are both saying that this raise should basically always be air? I'm just trying to clarify (sorry if its coming across badly). This is definitely not my standard play and thats part of the reason I had a tough decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

not exactly, I'd raise the flop where I felt comfortable folding to the shove, or calling the shove and I wouldn't always raise with hands I was autocalling the shove either