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#201
05-31-2007, 12:29 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
D Robinson/Shaq - shaq also played during hakeem's peak and hakeem dominated him, as well as against the admiral
Moses Malone/KG - i think the better comparison would be malone and amare... not KG... i'll give the slightest edge to KG here... Ewing/Amare - amare really hasn't done much... 1 injury marred season.. solid rookie and sophmore campaigns... 1 baseline season and a comeback year... compared to the ewing's whole career... Alonzo/Dwight Howard - this isn't even a comparison.. alonzo hands down thus far... Mutombo/Chris Bosh - mutombo and wallace would be a better comparison but i would call that a wash also... Eaton/Ben Wallace - eaton As for your the auxilary list... Gasol - i guess you can match him up with daugherty, in which case i'll take daugherty, Camby - how many seasons can we honestly put in here? like two healthy seasons? Chandler - ok let's not reach too far here... Yao Ming - i'll take Rik smits and thus far i'll take rik smits entire career over yao's, Okafor - laff, or Jermaine O Neal - rony seikaly ... i'll call it a wash thus far... and a lot of those guys you mentioned are pf's that duncan happens to have matched up with due to the era that we're in... you could throw in guys like karl malone or shawn kemp but houston had pf's to match up with them... 
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#202
05-31-2007, 12:32 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
[ Eaton/Ben Wallace = I'll give you a push although I think Wallace's defensive prowess is a bit overrated [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe I'm bothering to entertain this thought, but... <u>Mark Eaton</u> 11 seasons 6.0 points on 45.8% shooting, 7.9 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 3.5 blocks, 0.4 steals 1 time all star 0 time all NBA 2 time Defensive Player of the Year 3 Time all NBA Defensive 1st team, 2 times 2nd team 0 championships <u>Ben Wallace</u> 11 seasons 6.6 points on 47.9% shooting, 10.7 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 2.3 blocks, 1.3 steals(and keep in mind these numbers are weighted down by him only playing 5 minutes per game in his first year) 4 time all star 3 time all NBA 2nd team, 2 time all NBA 3rd team 4 time Defensive player of the year 5 time All NBA Defensive 1st team, 1 time 2nd team 1 championship Yeah, thanks a lot for being so kind as to give me a "push" on this matchup
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#203
05-31-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The entire point of Group A vs Group B was to show that I wasn't biased. Do you really think I'm biased regarding the players of today versus the players of yesteryear? [/ QUOTE ] If your list of great players is equally distributed between players drafted 1986 and after and players drafted before then, then yes you are very biased regarding players of today versus players of yesteryear. [ QUOTE ] Yes, Duncan has 3 players in the top 50. That is good, but it certainly isn't greatest of all time worthy. And no, in addittion to Phoenix I also think that Chicago and Detroit have 3 in the top 50. [/ QUOTE ] Garnett has 0 other players in the top 50, Hakeem had 0 or 1 at best other top 50 players on his team when he won his two titles, and for most of his career never had much help in Houston. [/ QUOTE ] You're going to have to explain your first statement to me. In Duncan's 2nd title, I don't believe he had a single player in the top 50 in the league on his team.
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#205
05-31-2007, 12:35 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
Eaton/Ben Wallace - eaton [/ QUOTE ] I seriously feel like I'm the victim of a practical joke right now.
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#206
05-31-2007, 12:38 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
Group A - Players who were drafted or entered the league 1985 or before
Group B - Players who were drafted or entered the league 1986 or after If your list of the greatest players in NBA history is split evenly between these two groups you are very much suffering from recency effect and are very biased towards today's players over former players.
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#207
05-31-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
As a person who saw Hakeem's entire career, there is absolutely no question to me that Duncan is a better player, much better. Hakeem was maybe better at his peak (93-96), but across their careers it isn't close. The reasons are simple, Duncan's basketball IQ and desire to win across his career crushes HO, who only became a smart player in his 9th season (92-93) Before that Olajuwon was a stat whore like Karl Malone who often hurt his teams chances to win in his pursuit of individual stats (mostly points). Specifically speaking he wouldn't pass the rock out of the post even when triple teamed, as a result teams would single him most of the game (to let him get his points), and then double and triple him late in the 4th and get the win. But since he got his points he didn't care, late in his career he finally wised up due in part to the insistence of coach Don Chaney, who got him to pass by appealing to his stat whorishness in a quest for a quadruple double (which HO did in fact eventually achieve).
LOL at anyone who thinks winning championships doesn't matter in determining the greatness of basketball players. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, not to accumulate pretty numbers. Wilt was the greatest stat whore of all time. it took him 8 seasons to wise up. Jordan was right behind him until Phil Jackson came along and wised his ass up. Russell and Duncan are very similar in that they eschew pretty stats for winning. Russell didn't care who scored, didn't insist on getting 'his minutes' or 'his touches' in blowouts (to pad his stats), Duncan is very similar in this regard. Duncan whines too frucking much, but other than that he's defintely an ATG.
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#208
05-31-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, even if I say Wallace is better, the overall top to bottom competition in Hakeem's era is still better, as blindside expanded upon so well. [/ QUOTE ] MEbenhoe, I love to debate. I'm wrong sometimes. I could be wrong here. But its frustrating right now for me to debate with you because you're 100% out to prove yourself right and you couldn't care less about actually finding truth or coming to some compromises imo. The Eaton/Wallace example is the biggest proof of that possible. I provided some matchups, and about one minute later you responded telling me who you thought was better and you greatly favored the side the helps your argument. Instead of doing that, why don't you actually sit down and look up all of their stats and achievements, then come to a conclusion. As you can tell, I argue my points with a lot of passion and determination. But I believe that I've earned the right to do this by being more than willing to change my viewpoints at times and always willing to consider the other side. You're not doing this.
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#209
05-31-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
The reasons are simple, Duncan's basketball IQ and desire to win across his career crushes HO. [/ QUOTE ] When this is your argument, you lose.
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#210
05-31-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: Best Big Men to Ever Play the Game
[ QUOTE ]
Group A - Players who were drafted or entered the league 1985 or before Group B - Players who were drafted or entered the league 1986 or after If your list of the greatest players in NBA history is split evenly between these two groups you are very much suffering from recency effect and are very biased towards today's players over former players. [/ QUOTE ] It was a list of the greatest players OF MY LIFETIME(I was born in 1982).
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