ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[mshalen]

His legal fees would eat up the $140,000 IF IF IF he won, but he wouldn't win anyway so why even bring it up?

[r2p]

Diablo is dead on. Once the mechanism exists it is far to easy to exploit it by any and all means and then justify it away. ZJ appears to have a made a serious error in judgement that one hopes is just being young and stupid (We all were at that age).

[Meeler09]

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Diablo is dead on. Once the mechanism exists it is far to easy to exploit it by any and all means and then justify it away. ZJ appears to have a made a serious error in judgement that one hopes is just being young and stupid (We all were at that age).

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I hate when people say we all make mistakes at that age.. I'm 19 and I've never done something that dumb.. [censored] that [censored] for giving younger people another black eye.

If by the age of 18 you don't know the difference between right and wrong, you should be locked up or shot.

[ghostwriter]

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I'm starting to think that people who criticize Stars for not clamping down enough on alleged cheaters are just idiots. Unilaterally confiscating $100,000 after conducting an "internal" investigation and deciding that certain prohibited but previously ignored activities violate your illegal and unenforceable terms and conditions (you clicked on these when you signed up at Party) is a brilliant way to take a company down.

In fact, it's the best way Party can become hopelessly embroiled in the US legal system. Unfortunately, Party's IPO prospectus notes that its directors may be subject to criminal prosecution if found within the US. [For people who think Party could sue JJProdigy or ZeeJustin, LOLOL]

Seriously, from an informed legal perspective Party's actions are not only dumb, they are suicidal and threaten to kill some of your golden geese much more effectively than Grandma ever could. It won't hurt US investors very much, however, because it's a federal offense for US investors to buy Party's stock.

Party's taking such a hard-line stand without an ounce of subtlety, reflection, or an iota of legal authority is the best thing that it can do if it wants to cease to exist as a company.

Some people need to go beyond the first level of moral reasoning (El Diablo, do you understand now, can you help?) and open up their eyes to the consequences of making examples out of people.

Stars, however, is aware of the complexities involed with confiscation of peoples' funds and have crafted a policy designed to deal with these complexitiees. That is smart.

By the way, if Party has found you "cheating" and confiscated funds from you, PM me. You will be glad you did.

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Okay, I have disagreed with your last three posts so apparently I must be an idiot. I can lay out my case and maybe you can point out why those of us who think Party did the right thing, and stars did not go are enough, are idiots.

First off, as others have tried to make the shoplifting analogy where the police don't come and confiscate your personal property at home, except maybe in Saudi Arabia: this is incorrect. If you get caught shoplifting, most shops call the police. Yes, at that time you only return that which you stole. But then you appear in court. You may have costs associated with an attourney. Depending on your state you may be assessed fines of $1500+. (This would be for a small item. In this instance people were cheated out of possibly tens of thousands for a final table finish. If you get busted stealing something that valuable the penalty is obviously way higher). You will probably do community service. There is also the possibility of jail time if you are a repeat offender. As you can see, even in a simple case of shoplifting, THE GUILTY PARTY PAYS BACK WAAAAAY MORE THAN JUST THE VALUE OF WHAT THEY STOLE.

Now we have a more serious problem here because these companies are not stationed in America and do not have to adhere to American law. They can't impose confinement on a cheater, so the only additional penalty they CAN impose is related to additional fines and/or confiscating monies of the guilty parties.

So aeest400, you seem to be connected in the legal field (I am guessing by your last sentance) so maybe you can answer a few questions for us idiots.

How is ZJ going to file suit against Party? Is he going to Gibraltar to file suit? Don't think so, although that would be interesting because then they COULD try him under their laws and possibly confine him in addition to taking his money.

Is he going to sue them in American court? How? Playing online is already a gray area legally. Lets say he did and he somehow won a judgement. Now what? Is the government of Gibraltar held by American law? Are we taking them over after we are done in Iraq?

How does he get around their terms and conditions which I just read through and they clearly state that if you are caught cheating they can close your account and confiscate your funds:

THE COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT, IN ITS UNFETTERED DISCRETION AND IN RELATION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, ANY RELATED ESP ACCOUNT, ANY ACCOUNTS YOU MAY HAVE WITH OTHER SITES AND/OR CASINOS AND/OR SERVICES OWNED OR OPERATED BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE COMPANY AND ANY SERVICES THAT SHARE THE SHARED GAME/TABLE PLATFORM, TO WITHHOLD YOUR ACCOUNT BALANCE, SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT, AND RECOVER ANY PAY-OUTS, BONUSES AND WINNINGS

That was taken from their account. It doesn't say 'winning from cheating". He has probably already cashed out money that they can't recover from before he was caught. He is still ahead in the long run and he doesn't deserve to be.

I agree with ElD that Stars has dropped the ball on this. You need to make the penalty stiff enough that people will not want to cheat. To just take only the cash won through what cheating they CAN detect is akin to taking the shoplifter, taking what you caught him taking THIS TIME, and shooing him out the door. This might have been the way they handled shoplifters in the '50s but times have changed. I will not be playing at Stars until they get more of a hard line against cheaters.

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If it ever comes before a US court I highly doubt Party's Terms of Service would be deemed legal or enforceable.

In effect Party is claming that you don't "own" the money in your account, they do and you can only cash out at their discretion. I find it odd that more people don't have a problem with this.

[bigdog23]

Say what u want the Dikshits from Party would have never done anything about cheating if it was not brought to them.
PokerStars is much more reputable.
Lee would be the first to admit you cant stop all forms of cheating but I have way more confidence in them than party.
The biggest disgrace was allowing Z Justin to enter 6 tournies from the same computer. (well maybe not the biggest disgrace - but that is pretty bad)

[Nick B.]

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Say what u want the Dikshits from Party would have never done anything about cheating if it was not brought to them.
PokerStars is much more reputable.
Lee would be the first to admit you cant stop all forms of cheating but I have way more confidence in them than party.
The biggest disgrace was allowing Z Justin to enter 6 tournies from the same computer. (well maybe not the biggest disgrace - but that is pretty bad)

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Right, and when the same thing was brought to pokerstars, they did nothing.

[TMTTR]

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Diablo is dead on. Once the mechanism exists it is far to easy to exploit it by any and all means and then justify it away. ZJ appears to have a made a serious error in judgement that one hopes is just being young and stupid (We all were at that age).

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I hate when people say we all make mistakes at that age.. I'm 19 and I've never done something that dumb.. [censored] that [censored] for giving younger people another black eye.

If by the age of 18 you don't know the difference between right and wrong, you should be locked up or shot.

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That is a bit of an unnecessary overstatement. Can I assume you wrote that because you are still young and stu...

[jman220]

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curtains,

You are correct. I misstated what you said - you did not say that ZJ's life is ruined. You said: "My main concern I suppose is those people who seem so excited and joyful about ZJ's demise and want to go out of their way to basicaly ruin his life." I still believe this is being overly dramatic. People are for the most part just wanting to see this kid banned from online poker sites and poker tournaments. That's a far cry from wanting to ruin someone's life. As I've said elsewhere, ZJ is a young jewish kid in LA w/ more money in the bank that most anyone his age. People can hope for a lot worse than what he has brought to himself and his life would still be far from ruined.



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FYP

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

Congratulations on being the only person on my ignore list.

Your subsequent attempts to explain your stupid post only make you look worse.

[mlagoo]

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Diablo is dead on. Once the mechanism exists it is far to easy to exploit it by any and all means and then justify it away. ZJ appears to have a made a serious error in judgement that one hopes is just being young and stupid (We all were at that age).

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I hate when people say we all make mistakes at that age.. I'm 19 and I've never done something that dumb.. [censored] that [censored] for giving younger people another black eye.

If by the age of 18 you don't know the difference between right and wrong, you should be locked up or shot.

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That is a bit of an unnecessary overstatement. Can I assume you wrote that because you are still young and stu...

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haha. i was going to write something similar. glad someone else took care of it for me =)

[grandgnu]

Have all you idiots who are posting "hey, let's have a freeroll with the money and let everyone on Party know what happened!" even thinking with 1/3rd your brain?

Role-reversal time. You are Party Poker, you make many simoleons through mostly recreational play from U.S. players.

The LAST friggin' thing you want to do is put out in big bold letters:

HEY EVERYONE, WE FOUND A CHEATER OR TWO AND CONFISCATED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND WE'RE GIVING IT BACK TO YOU, THE PLAYERS!

Reasons why:

1. This will awaken the majority of players to the reality that there are online cheats, and likely more than just these two. (most of the players online likely have zero clue about this situation, they aren't 2+2ers or reading up on this stuff, why would Party want the negative publicity?)

2. Many players would worry that they "might" be accused of cheating and have their funds seized, and thus would leave the site and withdraw their funds (which is also a possibility because they fear being cheated)

It's in Party's best interests (and our own actually) to be as hush-hush about this as possible.