ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[ononimo]

lol @ cheatOrs

[dlk9s]

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Secondly, almost all of you have broken the rules at some point.

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Guess that doesn't include me, because I haven't.

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If you are a saint like CSC claims to be, kudos to you. You are in the minority, and are certainly upstanding citizens. I commend you on following Party’s rules and not receiving rakeback. Most of us are too greedy to pass up money that easy.

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Hey! Thanks! That means a lot coming from you.


Seriously, when you grow up, you'll realize how stupid you sounded in that post.

[curtains]

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I am 100% certain that Curtains has NEVER in his entire life used two accounts to play on the same table.

Now that you can 10 table on party I don't know of a single legitimate player that uses multiple accounts.

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Does this mean you knew of players that did before 10 tabling was allowed?

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This has probably been mentioned already here, but it should be said again. Long before ZJ got busted or this witch hunt started Curtains was extreemly vocal about how unethical he felt that using multiple accounts to enter a multi was.

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And when ZJ told Curtains he was using Multi accounts? Chirps, chirps. He had a chance to follow through with his convictions, but never spoke out and out a cheater.

Actions speak louder than words.....

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You were allowed to do this before you could play 10 tables. When the other skins were around, it was completely legal to play under many screennames on Eurobet, all under the same name.

[DVaut1]

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Also, I don't believe creating a widespread snitching operatin is the answer. I knew of many people who were doing this (I never asked for details and had no idea that people would be brazen enough to enter 6 accounts in a tournament, but that's actually irrelevant) and would never consider telling on anyone, friend or enemy.

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What worries me about this rationale is that while you (apparently as a member of the "club" that's on the right AIM buddy lists/invited to the private forums were these things are discussed; perhaps I'm wrong and you're not, but I think this should apply to anyone in the high-stakes tourney culture that knew multi-accounting was prevalent, and does not necessarily need to be directed at you Shaniac) -- while you are fortunate enough to be aware these kinds of things were happening, many of us were not. I understand the conflict that "ratting someone out" creates, and why so many are hesistant to do it.

But I don't feel comfortable that there's apparently an "insular world" (as gumpzilla put it) where there are a privileged few who are aware of all the unethical dealings that go on (which steal from the player population at large) but who also feel absolutely no obligation to inform anyone else about it.

Maybe I should just learn to deal with it, but it shakes my confidence in the integrity of the games I play, and I can't imagine I'm alone on this. And I pretty much suck, so you want me in your games. As I said though, it's especially disconcerting that honest, ethical, non-cheaters know what transpires but don't feel compelled to inform anyone. I at least understand when the cheaters don't feel the urge to inform people they're cheating; I'm not quite sure what induces honest players to stay quiet.

[NoahSD]

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[/qZJ probably doesn't think it's very funny, and I think he's been punished enough by losing something like $100k and his reputation.uote]



Is one allowed to think the perhaps that is not punishment enough?

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Yes.

[Manque]

I guess we now know why he wanted a high stake STT forum. I mean who has the time to manage six accounts and look for high stakes posts?

[Weir]

wonder if losing all your money because you cheated qualifies as a "downswing"

[Layzie]

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If anyone had looked at ZJs My Space page with a critical eye, they would have been able to tell from his interests that he was up to something.

ZeeJustin's Interests

General: Games of any kind

Music Favorite Bands: Black Lab, Counting Crows, Smashing Pumpkins, A Perfect Circle, Alice in Chains, Dashboard Confessional, Eminem, Fallout Boy, The Killers, Modest Mouse, Nine Inch Nails, The Postal Service, Red Hot Chillie Peppers, Senses Fail, Something Corporate, Sponge, Stabbing Westward, Staind, Story of the Year, Tool, Weezer, Yellowcard

Favorite Movies: American History X, Fight Club, Requiem for a Dream, Pulp Fiction, Donnie Darko, The Usual Suspects, The Terminator

Favorite Television: Sopranos


However, from some of his other interests, it is possible to see that he is capable of turning around and flying right in the future:

Favorite Bands: Brand New, Citizen Cope, Green Day, Incubus, Nirvana, The Offspring, Sparta, The Starting Line, Stone Temple Pilots

Favorite Movies: American Beauty, Braveheart, Good Will Hunting, Shawshank Redemption, Back to the Future, Ghost Busters

Favorite TV Shows: Family Guy

Favorite Books: Brave New World, Theory of Poker

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what the [censored] are you talking about?

[shaniac]

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CSC,

Again, if you read his statement, I think it's pretty clear he knew it was wrong. He just thought there was enough $$$ value to him that doing that amount of wrong was OK. So, his willingness to cheat is clearly a function of the benefit gained by it. You can connect the dots.

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I believe ZeeJustin was operataing under the influence of Gorden Gecko's "Greed is good" maxim, and there was no moral calculus beyond that. Also, he was operating in an ethical environemnt that many people--including respected posters on here--said was perfectly fine to operate under.

Also, I don't believe creating a widespread snitching operatin is the answer. I knew of many people who were doing this (I never asked for details and had no idea that people would be brazen enough to enter 6 accounts in a tournament, but that's actually irrelevant) and would never consider telling on anyone, friend or enemy.

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What worries me about this rationale is that while you (apparently as a member of the "club" that's on the right AIM buddy lists/invited to the private forums were these things are discussed; perhaps I'm wrong and you're not, but I think this should apply to anyone in the high-stakes tourney culture that knew multi-accounting was prevalent, and does not necessarily need to be directed at you Shaniac) -- while you are fortunate enough to be aware these kinds of things were happening, many of us were not. I understand the conflict that "ratting someone out" creats, and why so many are hesistant to do it.

But I don't feel comfortable that there's apparently an "insular world" (as gumpzilla put it) where there are a privileged few who are aware of all the unethical dealings that go on (which steal from the player population at large) but who also feel absolutely no obligation to inform anyone else about it.

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Pretty much the only difference is that I knew I was taking it up the as$s, because of people doing this, or figured I was, and you didn't.

Not sure what private forum you allude to (I participate in none) but I am friends with a lot of people in the poker world, am trusted by a wide range of them, and don't consider it my place to police their ethics, or their practices.

Every bit of my gut told me this was wrong--and I never did it myself for this reason, or maybe it's because I, personally, am too lazy to confront the hassle of withdrawing money through Party Poker on a fake account--but I was convinced by people who are generally smarter and more adept at poker thinking than I am, that this was acceptable, not really cheating and just part of the new ehtical poker landscape that online ushered in. I'm easily influenced in that way--not to participate in the mayhem, but to accept it as reality.

In any case, I'm not going to be the one to inform on my friends, regardless of what they did or how wrong I may have determined it to be. Everyone has his own ethical boundaries to create and confront, their own morals to establish, and I would feel more disingenuous informing on people who trust me than the cheaters themselves are.

[perrier]

I'm going to say it again because I really feel this way.

The people here who play casually and want every red flag to be raised for them are just seeking a dead end. I am amazed that you guys are so shocked that rampant cheating goes on at the highest levels where the MOST money is on the line. Maybe actually being a poker pro and having lived in Vegas for a time has tainted me that much.

You have to watch your own back, you can't expect the world to just put it out there for you every time. Having some sort of watchdog thing will be completely ineffective because a) it would be ridiculous work for lloyd or whoever b) the information would stop reaching anyone who would report it to lloyd c) the attempts at cheating are never going to cease.

For a long time my attitude whenever I have sat in any poker game anywhere is that I am being cheated until I prove otherwise. It's just that simple, there are tons of people who will do anything when the price is right.

Perrier

P.S. I am not even going to respond to people who think this post is sympathetic towards the cheaters or condones moderate cheating or anything else ridiculous that one might incorrectly extrapolate from it.