Gun accidents? Guns are dangrous?

[pyedog]

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He appears to have trained his 11 year old kid to attack US marshalls with a rifle just for coming on his property.

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With good reason, as it turned out. Sometimes they really are out to get you.

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So yes, his family deserved to die in my opinion.

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Wow. This is bordering on hate speech, isn't it? What did this guy do besides have a different opinion about things than you do? He didn't compel anyone to invade his property.

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I'm surprised that guy is getting any support on this board, but whatever, gun fanatics scare me.

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People who think people who are different from themselves deserve to die scare me. It doesn't get much more fanatical than that.

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WTF? The guy appears to be a paranoid member of the Aryan nation white supremecist movement. Why would I care if those people die? They want black people to die, I'd prefer they die instead. I'm white by the way. I did only 5 minutes of reading on him at that wiki link, by the way, so I could be wrong. But it seems like he was arrested for being a member of hate groups, which is illegal in the US.

If you train your 11 year old son to shoot police officers who come to arrest you, then you are decreasing his life expectancy greatly. We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them. You should teach your son to shoot police officers who come to your door too, and then I will laugh at him when he dies too.

I'm just kidding by the way dude, don't do that. Seriously gun people scare me, I should just shut up now. Please don't come looking for me, I would be very easy to kill.

[MuresanForMVP]

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He appears to have trained his 11 year old kid to attack US marshalls with a rifle just for coming on his property.

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With good reason, as it turned out. Sometimes they really are out to get you.

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So yes, his family deserved to die in my opinion.

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Wow. This is bordering on hate speech, isn't it? What did this guy do besides have a different opinion about things than you do? He didn't compel anyone to invade his property.

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I'm surprised that guy is getting any support on this board, but whatever, gun fanatics scare me.

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People who think people who are different from themselves deserve to die scare me. It doesn't get much more fanatical than that.

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WTF? The guy appears to be a paranoid member of the Aryan nation white supremecist movement. Why would I care if those people die? They want black people to die, I'd prefer they die instead. I'm white by the way. I did only 5 minutes of reading on him at that wiki link, by the way, so I could be wrong. But it seems like he was arrested for being a member of hate groups, which is illegal in the US.

If you train your 11 year old son to shoot police officers who come to arrest you, then you are decreasing his life expectancy greatly. We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them. You should teach your son to shoot police officers who come to your door too, and then I will laugh at him when he dies too.

I'm just kidding by the way dude, don't do that. Seriously gun people scare me, I should just shut up now. Please don't come looking for me, I would be very easy to kill.

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Yeah,you really should.

[mosdef]

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We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them.

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Does that mean that we have to live in such a society forever? We used to live in a society where black people were allowed to be enslaved. Why did that change?

[pyedog]

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Good post and I agree to some extent. However, in this case, I think that the onus should be on gun supporters to prove that limiting the supply of handguns increases the incidences of extreme violence and murder.

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Of course you want to flip the burden of proof. But this is an illegitimate request. The burden is squarely on those making a claim. If you claim that you need to intervene in my private business, the onus is on you to show that your claim is legitimate.

If I said that you owed me $100, and told you that it's up to you to prove that you don't, would you say this is legitimate or illegitimate?

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If there was concrete evidence that a society with no access to guns couldn't be as safe then I could see making this point. But there are so many countries with strict gun laws that have low crime rates and much lower murder rates that I find it impossible to make this conclusion.

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Do you have a control group?

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No, I already said that it can't be proven. It is just a matter of opinion like abortions. We probably disagree on that too.

Anyways you win man. Seriously guns will always be easily accessible in the US and gun murder rates will always be high there. There may or may not be a correlation, it can never be proven, but intuition points me in one direction. Someone should probably try to do something I think.

Like slickss pointed out, a lot of crime problems have to do with wealth being very unfairly distributed. Canada is bad for this and I think the US is much worse. But suggesting something like that is akin to being a communist. Whatever, that problem will never be solved either so who cares.

I'm also not worried about global warming because I'll be dead in 50 years. But if we had a life expectancy of 300 years I'd be worried, but still not expect much to be done about it. People are stubborn and nobody wants to change.

[bdk3clash]

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We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them.

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Just wanted to point out that we (Americans) don't "live in a society where police have the [legal] right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause." The standard isn't "what they deem to be probable cause," it's "probable cause" in its absolute, legally and Constitutionally-enumerated sense. This difference is, to me, incredibly important.

[pyedog]

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We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them.

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Does that mean that we have to live in such a society forever? We used to live in a society where black people were allowed to be enslaved. Why did that change?

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Do you have a better idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of cops either. I got hassled for drinking a beer in public the other night which seems like a BS law to me.

Somebody has to enforce some kind of laws to prevent people from robbing and hurting each other. What's a better deterrent, having a police force or giving everyone a gun and letting them figure it out on their own? Maybe there's some other option or compromise, I don't know.

[pyedog]

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Yeah,you really should.

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Why do you guys support this Weaver guy so much? I feel like I'm missing something here. Tons of people die every day. I feel a lot worse about the people who died in the V-Tech shootings or the cops who were shot doing their job than the psychos on Ruby Ridge. So what? Do you feel bad when serial killers get the death penalty? I don't. I know that he wasn't that bad of a person, but if there's a line between law abiding and deviant he sounds like he was approaching dangerous nut job. I'm sure there have been tons of people in history who were less deserving of being shot than him.

[pyedog]

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We live in a society where police have the right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause and you are not permitted to shoot them.

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Just wanted to point out that we (Americans) don't "live in a society where police have the [legal] right to arrest you for what they deem to be probable cause." The standard isn't "what they deem to be probable cause," it's "probable cause" in its absolute, legally and Constitutionally-enumerated sense. This difference is, to me, incredibly important.

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Okay fine, except this is all arbitrary because "probable cause" can never be proven so somebody needs to deem it and they will always be wrong to some degree.

[PLOlover]

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In other words, I claim it is worth the inconvenience if one more life is saved with gun control than without.



OK, show your calculations.

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he'll never show it because if guns are banned the most lives that will save will be the lives of criminals.

[PLOlover]

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Take it to an arbitrator. I never said you shouldn't. It's just that no reputable one is likely to agree with you.



Oh, I see how it works. You don't get to decide what my rights are, a "reputable" arbitrator does. I don't suppose that your definition of "reputable" is "one that agrees with pvn's point of view"? No, of course not.

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No court currently agrees with you mosdef, that's why you have to wait until your house gets shot to go to court. Or wait until your neighbor tells you "i'm gonna shoot your house you punk".