Help me plan my back workout for tomorrow (total plan overview also)

[jah7_fsu1]

The only problem I have with Thremp (and I've tried being nice to him) is that he just says one thing and never explains himself.

"That advice sucks." "That program sucks." "That's stupid." None of that helps anyone. He definitely has knowledge on the subject, but he isn't open to discussion of his points. He would be a much better poster if he was open to discussion. This place would be much better off if he wasn't such a jerk to everyone.

I know much more about weight training and nutrition than I do on poker. When I ask poker questions I don't expect people to just say that's a crappy way to play it and not ever take the time to explain it.

[edfurlong]

He's not trying to discuss it, and that's fine.

[ QUOTE ]
Matt,

I'd completely scrap whatever you are doing. Look at some of the beginner stuff on T-nation or crossfit depending on your goals. T-nation is geared more for looking good, while crossfit is more about "athletic" performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice. I think it's great that there is a fitness forum here, but pointing people towards good places to get information is fine.

If I make a post in a strat forum about folding aces preflop I'll probably get pointed towards some kind of beginner FAQ or be told to buy a book.

[thirddan]

like ive said in other threads...i think this forum is great for some discussion and great for logs, but as a primer to starting a healthy diet and getting programs designed this just isn't the place...

[jah7_fsu1]

Why isn't it? The quote below is from the post on tone. I don't mind links to other places, but discussion helps everyone and the majority of people who come to a poker forum probably do not know a lot of stuff. Really, complaining about beginner questions is pretty lame given this isn't exactly an advanced nutriton/exercise science forum. I don't think people are going to come here looking for people to make them workouts or make them diets, but they can definitely post what they have been doing and we can suggest tweaks or link them to places to get answers. Everyone was a beginner at some point.


[ QUOTE ]
This is not T-Nation, this is not Bodybuilding, this is not a "if you can't lose/gain weight you are a [censored] wuss" forum. Like it or not, this forum's primary target is the average poster on 2+2 that has little to no clue on how to lose weight, bulk up, get in shape, be a better athlete, or understand nutrition. So, comments like "you suck and stop making excuses" are totally out of line and will result in a temporary suspension for 2 days. These comments are not productive whatsoever, and can be phrased much more constructively.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Thremp]

Rearden,

Why does cred matter? If in fact credentials do... I challenge all to a calf building contest. Anyone with larger calves at a lower bodyweight can say what they want.

Would that make you feel better?

[Colt McCoy]

Matt,

Forget your split routine. They're a ridiculous waste of time for most people. Start doing a full body routine 3x week. Search this forum for the Starr's 5x5 routine. Squat, Deadlift, Bench or Overhead Press. That's it. Forget about ancillary movements.

[Rearden]

[ QUOTE ]
Rearden,

Why does cred matter? If in fact credentials do... I challenge all to a calf building contest. Anyone with larger calves at a lower bodyweight can say what they want.

Would that make you feel better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Credentials matter in the same reason that most people dont:
-Listen to fat people about diet advice
-Listen to mircolimit poster's advice on 2k buy in games
-Seek legal/stock/medical advice from the average Joe who does not have a level of professional education or validation.
-Why people buy books by David S as opposed to my super elite book in the works on crushing NL200
etc.

Even then most people would agree that those who are qualified should never speak out with an overly pompous tone. That's not what this site, or even the concept of advice giving/constructive analysis, is about.

Thremp there are people on this forum that have higher personal totals than you, more years total of fitness experience, a level of professional certification/education etc... but there is no one that takes the approach you do to talk to beginners. And frankly no one should. I do not mean this as a personal attack on you Thremp; I have never met you and for all I know man you could be an awesome dude to watch a game with or toss back a few.... but as far as your posts in this forum in response to beginners/sometimes experienced folks I very much disagree with your tone and approach.

Additionally your calf building arguement...wtf? Yes obviously if you were the "king of calves" I would value your advice more than the advice of someone with pencils for legs surely...but even then that would not be a license to be rude to guys who just want information. No matter what your level of qualification, and I already went over that, there is no one on this board or in my opinion in the world so qualified as to degrade the comments/ideas of admitted newbies, without offering much or any constructive comments, in order to make themselves feel better.

EDIT TO ADD:

-I have recieved PMs in support of what I have said in this thread. Thank you. I would ask however that rather than PM me you either 1: Post your comments in the forum and make your statements known 2: contact people who can actually do something about tone enforcement (mods). I also hope that any and all sides in this debate (or any future debate) keep the comments professional and do not devolve into personal name calling/insults.

[Colt McCoy]

Rearden,

There are a number of reasons most credentials don't matter.

1) Most of the "trainers" with letters after their names got them from silly mail order correspondence course so they could work at a chain gym. Passing poorly written multiple choice tests does not make one an expert. Having the little letters after your name is the most useless credential there is.

2) Most of the people with degrees in fields related to physical training were taught by people that have no idea what they're doing. They went to a lot of classes and can name every muscle in the body but have no idea how training impacts them.

3) There are a ton of "experts" out there, all with credentials. They all have different views. They're not all right so most of those credntials don't mean anything.

4) Most good trainers aren't training average Joes like the people here, and the programs and training they write about isn't usually designed for them. Case in point is all the stupid split routines in the muscle magazines that are almost useless if not counterproductive for most people.

5) Most people work out for personal reasons, with their own goals. Most work jobs or have other careers. Not being a professional trainer or some kind of bodybuilder or powerlifting contestant doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. As an example, I used to bench 1.5x BW for reps, but I have never participated in any kind of contest. It doesn't mean I'm clueless.

I'm not saying that someone who has major personal physical accomplishments or trained people who have don't have meaningful credentials. I'm just saying a lack of "credentials" doesn't at all mean that someone doesn't know what they're talking about in this field.

edit: If you read through this forum, Thremp has given quite a bit of good advice. He's gotten more caustic and less helpful lately probably because he's tired of posting the same things over and over for people that keep asking the questions w/o bothering to read anything first.

[Thremp]

Rearden,

Thats my point. You would think what I do on calves is good for some awkward reason. Whereas I'd tell you that you have inferior genetics... Will never have relative calf development like I do, and that I accidentally am forced to work my calves when doing things like power cleans.

Pushing ridiculous anecdotal proof in the form of your own ability or that you have received XXX certification and therefore your advice must be best is the height of ignorance. I started some threads that have gotten token responses on more advanced issues, but it seems this isn't the place. However, 95% of the "advice" people here need is to copy someone else's program who makes a living designing these, do it, and change their eating habits.

[Colt McCoy]

[ QUOTE ]
However, 95% of the "advice" people here need is to copy someone else's program who makes a living designing these, do it, and change their eating habits.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is the program they're probably going to copy is probably from an article entitled "How Ronnie Coleman Makes Massive Gains!" or something equally nonsensical. After all, he does have credentials! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]