Which Format is Best for Going Pro? (Online and B&M)

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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I think that's an important contributor to the effect, but it's not the only story. My working hypothesis is that it's also because merely playing online shows an enthusiasm for the game that B&M players do not generally have. A lot of B&M players play poker merely to drink and socialize and gamble in a way that is relatively low-intensity--this continues up to quite a high limit, I've seen it even in 20/40. This "social player" does not exist online. Therefore, I hypothesize that the average online player will do more to educate himself towards proper play than a B&M player will.

This is just a bunch of psychobabble on my part.

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No, you are right. there are often "slot monkey" mentalities at a 10/20 or even higher at B & Ms, and almost never on line. VPIP at local 10/20 limit games weekend nights I think exceeds party .50/$1. Its just so damned slow and the rakes so damned high, comparatively speaking.

[lwrunner103]

PJO that is some freaking ninja bump of 1.5 years to say I agree. full ring cash is consistent mmmoney with little variance for the average set mmmmmining nit.

[PJo336]

someone was drunk..

[johnnyrocket]

easier to build roll online, multitabling, quick dealing, access to every game. In person larger rake, less hands, but worse players. Play online but know how to play in person and do it a decent amount also to get used to the feel.

[RobNottsUk]

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A 300 BB swing in limit is 6 buy-in as NL, which is not a big deal.

In 1/2 Limit that is a $600 swing. In NL, a $600 swing that is 6 buy-ins would be a $100 buy-in game, meaning .5/1 Blinds (usually) .5/1 NL is a higher-stakes game than 1/2 Limit. Do you see why you're wrong?

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There's a flaw in this argument. I'll convert Big Bets to bb, to make a comparison.

FLHE - bankroll 600bb, for a normal win rate
NLHE - bankroll 2,000bb, for a normal win rate (and this probably on low side for Pro's)

So saying the 6 Buy In $100 NL game, is much bigger is a fallacy. Bankroll of $2,000 standard win rates would suggest :

NLHE game $100 Buy In, 50c/$1
FLHE game $3/6, with $200 comfort cushion

The $25 Buy In NLHE game is the right comparison with $1/2 FLHE.

In practice with a small online bankroll, I found my win rate at No Fold'em FLHE (lots of callers large swings), was sufficiently high, to make 400bb perfectly adequete.

If you make 10bb/100 multi-tabling on 4 NL tables at 50c/$1, you'ld make $40/100 hands played.

At $3/6 multi-tabling on 4 FL tables at $3/6, winning 3bb/100, you'ld make $38/100 hands played. A 4bb/100 FLHE player would make more than the NL player off same bankroll, with more security.

At the micro stakes, when I built my bankroll from nothing, I was 10+bb/100 at FLHE, and I could start at 25c/50c game, rather than looking for a $5 Buy In game.

All a bit moot, as the sites seem to be killing off FLHE with high rake and increased rake caps, so I'm playing PLO more often than FLHE now. I think there's more bad (and beginners) players playing NL for higher stakes, because it's what they see on TV, and it's 'macho' to play NL.

[hammer33]

I think the real answer to this question depends on the individual. Playing part time as an aspiring pro is infinitely different that going full time..I'm in the transition stage right now, balancing both a full career and increased hours per week of playing poker to determine ROI, $/hr etc. What I've found for myself is that I play my best game when I continuously play different games..When playing online, I like a mix of Sitgos and MTTs..When I play live, I like to mix in NL ring games with sitgos and MTTs..My preference is to constantly change up so the game always seems fresh. Grinding just cash everyday or just MTTs everyday gets old fast..

[Voltaire]

If you can read players, B&M is your best bet. Online you can't read the players--well, there are some tells, but they are nothing compared to looking at some player pounding in his bet like the thunder god. Also of course if you are readable yourself, then online is better.

Online games are tougher, but there is no dealer to tip, no gas to buy, and you can play many, many more hands per hour.

[Voltaire]

"A lot of B&M players play poker merely to drink and socialize and gamble in a way that is relatively low-intensity--this continues up to quite a high limit, I've seen it even in 20/40. This "social player" does not exist online. Therefore, I hypothesize that the average online player will do more to educate himself towards proper play than a B&M player will."

I also agree, although there are some social players online.
Social players like the atmosphere of being in a club, they like having a dealer and somebody waiting on them; they like the massage and being with other people. The games are definitely easier to beat, but beware of slow games and bad fish (I mean the kind served from the kitchen--that can be VERY distracting).

[Voltaire]

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No, it's not. Variance is the square of the standard deviation. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Droll.

As to the question, if the stacks are deep, then NL has a larger variance than limit. How deep? Now we need a mathematician.

I think the reason that some people--probably NL players--don't like the idea that NL might have a larger variance is because having a larger variance seems to imply more luck, less skill. But a larger variance really means more luck in the short run. Top players at either limit or NL tend to have bigger variances than lesser players. In general the bigger the beta, the riskier the stock (to make a semi-correct comparison), but the bigger the potential killing.

Personally when I play limit I have almost twice the VPIP of the average grinder, but I make more per hour overall. Of course I have some days when I am rebuying at several tables!

[Kmon]

From playing live for 8 years and online only 5 years, I would say a combination is the best. Playing online during the week, and live if ur within driving distance is worth it. Live is slow and a little more fun imop, but for the sheer amount of hands you can play online you start to learn and put people on hands because u see the same call by the lag in the same position a hundred times you start putting the pieces together.

My dream is to be a bonus whore, rakeback whore, play low nl online and 2/5 live Nl in indiana till i build a good enough br and go to vegas and travel the world.

I would have to agree when I played 2/5nl 500max in vegas the players there were close in skill level nickle dime I play on ftp. But again apples and oranges, if I played 1k hands a day live I would see who is good and who is bad, live u find out by a couple of moves hopefully.

Use both, read everything u can, and get a poker buddy to talk hands over. That for me has a been a big help, talking over hands with someone with a higher skill level so u can get there mindset and see why they make the moves they do.

Gl, get pokertracker and play as much as u can to find ur leaks. And play live and grind it out.