JTs - Standard or Spew?

[Tickner]

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His raise is effictively a shove (the money is going all in anyway), except with his raise a super donk thinks "oh, its only $45" instead of it being $80 more or whatever it is.

Oh and this isnt a bluff its a VALUE BET, so why do you want FE?

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Without doing the math I think taking the pot down here is better than getting callers (even though you are slightly above 50% to win)

rvg

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so shove.. but what other hands do you shove with?

[FishSticks]

Raise amount is weird, if you get a caller they will have like only 1/5 pot left or whatever. Call or shove. Case can be made for either one, really.

[yoshi86]

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His raise is effictively a shove (the money is going all in anyway), except with his raise a super donk thinks "oh, its only $45" instead of it being $80 more or whatever it is.

Oh and this isnt a bluff its a VALUE BET, so why do you want FE?

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I like a call or shove here. If you get a caller after raising to 45 and you hit a scary card like 8s, villain probably won't be putting another dollar into the pot with hands that might have called a flop push JJ, A8, 76, etc.

[djj6835]

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Without doing the math I think taking the pot down here is better than getting callers (even though you are slightly above 50% to win)

rvg

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I must be completely missing something here. The pot is only a little over $30 when op raised. How is taking it down there better than getting all-in with at least 50% equity?

[wdead]

shove and hopefully they both call

[rvg72]

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Without doing the math I think taking the pot down here is better than getting callers (even though you are slightly above 50% to win)

rvg

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I must be completely missing something here. The pot is only a little over $30 when op raised. How is taking it down there better than getting all-in with at least 50% equity?

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If you push and he folds you win $30

If you push and say UTG calls you have:

52% chance of winning $116 = +60.32
48% chance of losing $86 = -41.28
= $19.04

Even if you were 55% to win (which you woudln't be here but imagine you had an even better draw) you are still better off taking it down on the flop.

Having both players call is the best scenario in the OP but having none would be second best by a pretty big margin.

rvg

Edit: my point was in regards to Fold Equity not being important when in many cases, even when you are ahead, you should be happy to take down the pot.

[binions]

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No reads on UTG
CO is a 65/21 donk.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.50/$1 Blinds
5 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $37
BB: $148.15
UTG: $98.50
CO: $76.30
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $156.25</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($1.50, 5 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $3.50</font>, CO calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, SB calls $3, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($15, 4 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $10</font>, CO calls $10, <font color="red">Hero raises to $55</font>

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Shove flop. 2 overs, a gutter to the nuts and a flush draw can mean as many as 18 outs twice, or ~64%. Currently, however, you are behind. Therefore, give yourself both ways to win.

While you may get called in both spots (and your flush draw/overs may not be outs if you do), a shove may also get one of the hands to fold - perhaps the winning hand.

A lot of benefits to shoving.

[binions]

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His raise is effictively a shove (the money is going all in anyway), except with his raise a super donk thinks "oh, its only $45" instead of it being $80 more or whatever it is.

Oh and this isnt a bluff its a VALUE BET, so why do you want FE?

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Without doing the math I think taking the pot down here is better than getting callers (even though you are slightly above 50% to win)

rvg

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so shove.. but what other hands do you shove with?

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Straights and sets and As8s for sure.

[binions]

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I like it. Calling here is fine too.

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If we call the flop, whats the plan on the turn?

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The only reason to call the flop is to induce the original bettor to go all in, getting a call from the other player, so we get 3 way action on our monster draw.

Personally, this is much riskier than shoving, but it pays off more when you catch the card you need.

If we call and they call on the flop, we have position on the turn. See what happens. With as many as 18 outs, however, you can't be folding to a bet on the turn. Which is the reason I like the shove on the flop.

[Gawuss]

I'd raise it too