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#121
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
[ QUOTE ]
jesus david williams is horrible. [/ QUOTE ] 
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#122
03-27-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So how was the episode overall for those that watched? Worth staying up to catch the re-run at 2? [/ QUOTE ] Geez I dont know what to say. Maybe I`m expecting too much from this line up. Phillllllllllllllll please explain that flush fold. STUNNED!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] DW bet just over the pot size into 2 players I believe, and Ivey just thought there was no way a raise or a call was good for the situation. He basically put DW on a big hand AA-QQ. If he calls he's not getting the correct odds to draw or correct implied odds as he just doesn't think he's going to get paid off if he hits as his hand will not be disguised enough. Raising isn't such a bad play but he can't stand a re-raise all in and if DW has AA-QQ he will most likely 3 bet all in. I think many players don't appreciate how folding there is probably a better play than calling or raising. Plus stacks aren't deep enough for Ivey to make a big play. Everyone happy? Also, I thought Ivey played the QQ hand perfectly. [/ QUOTE ] And the summary to all of that is: Ivey thought there would be a better spot to get money from the donk (of this table). [/ QUOTE ] No, its not. The summary is that Ivey thought that calling (or raising) was a -EV play.
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#123
03-27-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
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I don't get why Ivey's fold is such a big deal here. [/ QUOTE ] It's worth discussing because Ivey called a raise preflop with K3s. Though, I think the raise was to just $2,000. Why play K3s for a raise if you're so quick to put the pre-flop raiser on a big pair and fold a flush draw/overcard on the flop?
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#124
03-27-2007, 05:44 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
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[ QUOTE ] I don't get why Ivey's fold is such a big deal here. [/ QUOTE ] It's worth discussing because Ivey called a raise preflop with K3s. Though, I think the raise was to just $2,000. Why play K3s for a raise if you're so quick to put the pre-flop raiser on a big pair and fold a flush draw/overcard on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] Because ivey understands pot odds, and isn't a "i must chase every draw" fish?
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#125
03-27-2007, 05:56 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't get why Ivey's fold is such a big deal here. [/ QUOTE ] It's worth discussing because Ivey called a raise preflop with K3s. Though, I think the raise was to just $2,000. Why play K3s for a raise if you're so quick to put the pre-flop raiser on a big pair and fold a flush draw/overcard on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] Because ivey understands pot odds, and isn't a "i must chase every draw" fish? [/ QUOTE ] If he didn't want to chase a draw, what's he playing K3s for? I agree with the fold. But, I also would have folded pre-flop.
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#127
03-27-2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
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If he didn't want to chase a draw, what's he playing K3s for? [/ QUOTE ] He doesn't always face a big overbet when he flops a draw. Williams' bet is very difficult to play against here. He either has a small overpair that he's willing to fold or a slightly bigger one he's willing to commit with, and it's too expensive to check-raise him to find out. Obviously Ivey's implied odds here are limited. I think Negreanu check-raising the turn in the 64s hand would have been slightly bad. Ivey is repping a big hand here, and ended up having the low end of his range. It's close though, it really depends whether Ivey always folds an overpair or not. Betting the river isn't very good when he trips up. It's obvious Williams isn't calling, and that Ivey has a hand, meaning it's also obvious to Ivey that DN isn't bluffing. Betting the river gives Ivey a chance to dump some of his overpairs and push his boats. In fact, I think if Ivey fires a big bet on the river, it's a borderline call for DN to make, and it's possible he lays it down. Meanwhile DW's play was typically bad. His showing on cash poker was even worse. Even the hand he layed down a set (in cash poker) he misplayed by slow playing TT on a TJA 2 flush board, and lucked out that the guy behind him decided to make a move. Kaplan once again demonstrated that he has no business doing hand analysis. He doesn't understand pot odds well, and has almost no understanding of implied/reverse implied odds. He doesn't seem understand intermediate+ nl plays, like bet/3 bet and fast playing good hands. Whenever a player flops a huge hand and picks up the pot on the flop, he criticizes them for not slow playing, or betting/raising less. I would like to see more balanced tables next season. Stop letting random no name donks play. Limit to field to big name pros and top notch nl cash game players. Try to schedule the tables such that they contain, say, 50% excellent+ nl players(townsend, antonious, ivey, etc), 25% ~decent nl players(harman), 25% awful players(gold, dw, elezra). No more ridiculously tough tables, or ridiculously donkish tables. Gets rid of the almost unwatchable donk tables, and gives the top players a nicer edge. It was so lopsided that I'm curious as to whether the crap players only played on the condition that they play with other crap players.
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#128
03-27-2007, 07:00 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
[ QUOTE ]
If he didn't want to chase a draw, what's he playing K3s for? I agree with the fold. But, I also would have folded pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] That game had otherwise featured smaller flop bets. Negreanu's typical flop bet has been about half-pot, and the others have followed suit with smallish bets. Williams' overbet of the pot on the flop was unconventional and had Ivey been able to predict that kind of action, I'm sure he would have mucked rather than cold-calling, trying to draw in the blinds and face a weaker opponent forced to play Ivey out of position. In a multiway pot where a flop bet is liable to be 1/3 of the pot or so, his K5s is a profitable hand to play in position. Not that I have to tell Dynasty this stuff (and I suck at NL anyway), but I'm pretty sure that this flop action was an exception and not the rule of that game.
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#129
03-27-2007, 07:04 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
This game needs more Dan Shak. Open-limp-fold with A4o in EP.
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#130
03-27-2007, 07:25 PM
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Re: High Stakes Poker thread 3/26 (Ivey and others)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't think Gabe knows that much about poker. His comment when J Dags checked the two pair on the river after a mono flop, was he was worried Williams had slowplayed a flopped flush. Looked like a pretty obvious attempt to induce a bluff to me. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] or the fact the David easily have Ad with pair on flop (i.e. AdTx/Ad8x) [/ QUOTE ] You don't think he raises the flop with TPTK + the nut flush draw? [ QUOTE ] or that he has a bare ace and might try to value bet the river and JDags calls with middle 2 pair. [/ QUOTE ] OK I said induce a bluff, I guess I should have said a bet from a worse hand. I'm pretty certain JD wasn't checking because he thought he was beat, which was the gist of what Gabe said. [ QUOTE ] Honestly, when I was watching, I liked JDags play on each street (including preflop) and David played poor/weak-tight on the turn and river (turn is an easy fold if you're going to play your hand face up) and river he should have bet 40k to rep a better 2 pair on the river (i.e. AdTx) [/ QUOTE ] That river bet would have been spew given the way he played the hand. JD could easily have the Ad and DW's hand had showdown value.
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