Misplayed AK out of position - Page 2

djeric1 · #11 03-12-2007, 06:55 PM

I agree.. I think if I had a position here, I definitely would've 3-bet a flop raise, but being OOP really sucks in this type of hand... I definitely thought about check-raising the turn here (for potential fold equity with the nut re-draw), but didn't pull the trigger (and certainly didn't want to get 3-bet on the turn).

djeric1 · #12 03-12-2007, 07:03 PM

Deranged,

Nice analysis... I generally agree with your points here. I think that the time to make a move at this pot is the turn if we think villain is FOS... my only issue with Point #1 is that while he seemed taggish, he was also not being called down, so maybe he felt like he could run over the table. Since I actually hadn't seen him showdown a hand, this actually made me want to call the river for informational purposes. I don't know if that really justifies a calldown, but I had been playing (at other tables) for roughly 25 hours, so maybe I wasn't thinking too clearly by this point [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Grease · #13 03-12-2007, 07:04 PM

As played, I'm hard pressed to come up with a reason for calling the river. He has shown a fair amount of strength, and is probably not firing the last barrel on a bluff, but more likely making a value bet. I think the time to make a move was the turn. I instinctively thought a C/R would work well here, since you definitely have flush outs if called, and your overs might be good as well.

However, if we turn C/R, will that oblige us to fire again on the river if we blank off, in the hopes he was calling with a pair and a FD and was planning on folding the river UI? Or should we just give up the ship without a read?

Jeffage · #14 03-12-2007, 07:09 PM

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Most likely, I would have folded the flop

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There is no way this is correct getting 10-1 odds. People raise all the time on ragged flops to get a free card. Flat out, this is WAY too early to give someone credit for a hand, particularly in this game.

Jeff

Jeffage · #15 03-12-2007, 07:10 PM

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he probably would have re-raised pre-flop.

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Why, when he has position and can instead raise you on an expensive street?

Jeff

djeric1 · #16 03-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Thanks guys for all the replies... in general, as this game is pretty aggressive, I think a c/r on the turn would've been a better play (although I would've hated getting 3-bet obviously). Anyway, I looked at the 8 BB pot, and said [censored] it, let's see what this guy's got, and kissed $80 goodbye... or so I thought. Villain says Ace high, and turns over A8 diamonds, and MHIG. I still hate check-calling this river (and felt like a fish doing it), and am just trying to figure out the best line for this hand in the future against an unknown (without being results oriented).

-Eric

Brad1970 · #17 03-12-2007, 08:54 PM

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Most likely, I would have folded the flop

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There is no way this is correct getting 10-1 odds. People raise all the time on ragged flops to get a free card. Flat out, this is WAY too early to give someone credit for a hand, particularly in this game.

Jeff

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I have never played in this particular game, I was just basing that off of my own experiences. The mid limit games I play in are usually full of a bunch of old men who only bet when they have something & won't fold until you show them a winning hand. AK unimproved on the flop facing a bet is usually behind.

Jeffage · #18 03-12-2007, 11:20 PM

You're heads-up. You are getting 10-1. You likely have six outs and the only strength you've been shown is getting raised on a ragged flop by someone who quite possibly wants a free card. Not to mention the fact that bet-folding this flop after reraising out of the small will be like putting a big "kick me" sign on your forehead. IMO if you are bet-folding this hand on the flop in a typical 40 game, you are better off mailing your money in.

Jeff

Brad1970 · #19 03-13-2007, 09:12 AM

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You're heads-up. You are getting 10-1. You likely have six outs and the only strength you've been shown is getting raised on a ragged flop by someone who quite possibly wants a free card. Not to mention the fact that bet-folding this flop after reraising out of the small will be like putting a big "kick me" sign on your forehead. IMO if you are bet-folding this hand on the flop in a typical 40 game, you are better off mailing your money in.

Jeff

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Pot odds aside, is it too far wrong to fold when you know you are behind?

7ontheline · #20 03-13-2007, 12:00 PM

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Pot odds aside, is it too far wrong to fold when you know you are behind?

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I'm confused - how can you put pot odds aside when you're deciding whether to fold? You could be so far behind and only have one out and if the pot is big enough you still ought to call. I agree that folding to the flop raise here is weakweakweak but if you're in a game where it's 100% you're beat and drawing thin then folding might be OK - don't exactly see how you could be that sure though.