Coaching WARNING

[Grunch]

This thread is turning in to a wildfire of dysfunction, innfighting and general unhappiness with your neighbors.

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is turning in to a wildfire of dysfunction, innfighting and general unhappiness with your neighbors.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. This is getting a bit out of hand. I really don't see any good coming from this thread from this point forward.

OP had a message and a goal. The message got out and many posted their opinions. Snowbank responded, and he is not refunding the money, so OP's ultimate goal was not reached. I don't really think anything here is gonna change. At this point, people are just starting to attack each other, and I doubt any good is coming from this.

[kazana]

Whether snowbank is a good/bad coach, charging too much/little, using the right/wrong tools to coach, or has 20/2000 posts is imo completely irrelevant.

So, let me summarize the more relevant parts:

The Setup:
OP: Dude, I lost all my bling on a coinflip, lolz, gimme back my fees for the unused coaching sessions.
Snowbank: Nah, not going to happen.
OP: WTF?!!1??1?!! It's industry standard to do so, I'm entitled to get me monies to gambool!!!11111
Snowbank: Nah, it's not industry standard, it's standard to keep the monies.
OP: Ah-hah, it is standard to refund!!!
Snowbank: Nah-ah!
OP: Ah-hah!!!!
...

The Climax:
OP then goes bitching on the forum, saying it's his right to get his fees back, and while at it, trashing snowbank about mostly irrelevant details.

The "Verdict":
Other coaches say that it is very well standard to get a refund. Snowbank should have done the same.
Most posters agree that it is not OP's right to get the monies back, but snowbank should've refunded anyway.
Many of snowbank's friends agree that he should've refunded obnoxious OP nevertheless. Even though he is not entitled to.
Still, snowbank doesn't seem willing to refund. Not after spending several hours on AIM with OP.

The End - or maybe not?

I've deliberately cut out all the other noise in this thread.

So, what are people still arguing about? I'm not sure if I've missed anything. I must have, because I can't see the point in the ongoing dramabombing.

My impression is, that if OP had been mature enough to leave out the irrelevant details, instead of trying to trash snowbank out of spite, this thing would've been resolved about 350 posts ago. Probably even on a more positive note for both, OP and snowbank.

[Taylor Caby]

[ QUOTE ]
To everyone; This thread is the 'proof' that 2p2 has a colossal mob mentality, the moment some random person accuses a known and respected person everyone jumps on the horse wagon of dragging snowbank through the mud. From my point of view 2p2 noticed a few big name 2p2'ers basically saying snowbank is a scumbag and decide to follow them like a herd of sheep. If a bunch of big name 2p2'ers would've posted at the start of the thread that they completely trust snowbank and that they think OP is completely off base here than I wouldn't be suprised that the rest of 2p2 follows meakly.

I also said this to OP but I think he personally managed to make sure he never gets back his money, if I decided to not refund and OP decides to drag my name through the mud I'd never even CONSIDER helping him out ever again in whatever regard. OP should've got this sorted out with snowbank personally and if that doesn't work with 2p2 modds/other coaches/other students etc. before even considering dragging his name through the mud. I find this entire episode VERY unclassy by OP and although I don't agree with snowbanks choice not to refund I back him up completely.

[/end rant]

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe you are very wrong here. as far as the mob mentality goes, i admit i'm not on 2+2 as much as some or haven't been here as long, but that is true in some cases. However, with 200+ replies and a lot of people (me, krantz, some mods, etc.) who don't stick their nose into other peoples business and call people out very often I think you can see this is not one of those instances.

the only reason i ever got involved was snowbank told OP (DAYS ago, if not weeks) that he couldn't get his money back, and that it is because places like cardrunners have similar policies. OP IMs me and I told him to tell the guy to IM me and let me know where he heard of such a policy and that OP should still demand a refund. Well, snowbank didn't budge...so now he came here.

so, snowbank has been talking to him privately for days - you are wrong when you say he just came here instead of trying to work it out privately, he had no other choice. OP is fairly new here, how is he supposed to know to who to even contact? let's face it, what is some 2p2 mod going to do about something totally unrelated to 2p2?

snowbank may be and probably is a cool dude. he's probably someone we'd all like to party with, fine. his problem is he just has no concept of ethics and at this point if he doesn't refund the lesson he is just being stubborn. if he was my friend i'd say the same thing, so i hope his friends can take a step back and say hey "snowbank, you have some found money, refund the guy and move on."

tc

[goofyballer]

[ QUOTE ]
To everyone; This thread is the 'proof' that 2p2 has a colossal mob mentality, the moment some random person accuses a known and respected person everyone jumps on the horse wagon of dragging snowbank through the mud. From my point of view 2p2 noticed a few big name 2p2'ers basically saying snowbank is a scumbag and decide to follow them like a herd of sheep. If a bunch of big name 2p2'ers would've posted at the start of the thread that they completely trust snowbank and that they think OP is completely off base here than I wouldn't be suprised that the rest of 2p2 follows meakly.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFCOULDNTBEMOREWRONG.

EDIT: Oops, late to that party.

[Keyser.]

[ QUOTE ]
To everyone; This thread is the 'proof' that 2p2 has a colossal mob mentality, the moment some random person accuses a known and respected person everyone jumps on the horse wagon of dragging snowbank through the mud. From my point of view 2p2 noticed a few big name 2p2'ers basically saying snowbank is a scumbag and decide to follow them like a herd of sheep. If a bunch of big name 2p2'ers would've posted at the start of the thread that they completely trust snowbank and that they think OP is completely off base here than I wouldn't be suprised that the rest of 2p2 follows meakly.

I also said this to OP but I think he personally managed to make sure he never gets back his money, if I decided to not refund and OP decides to drag my name through the mud I'd never even CONSIDER helping him out ever again in whatever regard.

[/ QUOTE ]

This really is so wrong. If you read the beginning of this thread you'll see that a lot of people didn't believe the OP and were on Snowbank's side. It certainly wasn't a repsected poster that changed our opinions (srsly there might be some sheep here but not all of us, kthnx) but it was when some really bad looking coaching chats logs and everything came out that we started to think snowbank might be in the wrong.

And still, this thread has been relatively tame for a drama bomb. It's rarely attacked Snowbank personally and most people have said at some point "well he can keep the money if the wants but it's obv a bad business decision."

[ QUOTE ]
OP should've got this sorted out with snowbank personally and if that doesn't work with 2p2 modds/other coaches/other students etc. before even considering dragging his name through the mud. I find this entire episode VERY unclassy by OP and although I don't agree with snowbanks choice not to refund I back him up completely.

[/end rant]

[/ QUOTE ]

OP did try to settle this personally (hence the AIM convo in the very first post). Then snowbank ignored him so he came to 2p2. Pretty reasonable.

[Dan Bitel]

[ QUOTE ]
Whether snowbank is a good/bad coach, charging too much/little, using the right/wrong tools to coach, or has 20/2000 posts is imo completely irrelevant.

So, let me summarize the more relevant parts:

The Setup:
OP: Dude, I lost all my bling on a coinflip, lolz, gimme back my fees for the unused coaching sessions.
Snowbank: Nah, not going to happen.
OP: WTF?!!1??1?!! It's industry standard to do so, I'm entitled to get me monies to gambool!!!11111
Snowbank: Nah, it's not industry standard, it's standard to keep the monies.
OP: Ah-hah, it is standard to refund!!!
Snowbank: Nah-ah!
OP: Ah-hah!!!!
...

The Climax:
OP then goes bitching on the forum, saying it's his right to get his fees back, and while at it, trashing snowbank about mostly irrelevant details.

The "Verdict":
Other coaches say that it is very well standard to get a refund. Snowbank should have done the same.
Most posters agree that it is not OP's right to get the monies back, but snowbank should've refunded anyway.
Many of snowbank's friends agree that he should've refunded obnoxious OP nevertheless. Even though he is not entitled to.
Still, snowbank doesn't seem willing to refund. Not after spending several hours on AIM with OP.

The End - or maybe not?

I've deliberately cut out all the other noise in this thread.

So, what are people still arguing about? I'm not sure if I've missed anything. I must have, because I can't see the point in the ongoing dramabombing.

My impression is, that if OP had been mature enough to leave out the irrelevant details, instead of trying to trash snowbank out of spite, this thing would've been resolved about 350 posts ago. Probably even on a more positive note for both, OP and snowbank.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank [censored] some1 else sees it as it is

[Grunch]

Honestly Dan, if you read this thread and didn't come to the conclusion that most posters agree with that summary, then you saw only what you wanted to see and missed some big messages.

[Keyser.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether snowbank is a good/bad coach, charging too much/little, using the right/wrong tools to coach, or has 20/2000 posts is imo completely irrelevant.

So, let me summarize the more relevant parts:

The Setup:
OP: Dude, I lost all my bling on a coinflip, lolz, gimme back my fees for the unused coaching sessions.
Snowbank: Nah, not going to happen.
OP: WTF?!!1??1?!! It's industry standard to do so, I'm entitled to get me monies to gambool!!!11111
Snowbank: Nah, it's not industry standard, it's standard to keep the monies.
OP: Ah-hah, it is standard to refund!!!
Snowbank: Nah-ah!
OP: Ah-hah!!!!
...

The Climax:
OP then goes bitching on the forum, saying it's his right to get his fees back, and while at it, trashing snowbank about mostly irrelevant details.

The "Verdict":
Other coaches say that it is very well standard to get a refund. Snowbank should have done the same.
Most posters agree that it is not OP's right to get the monies back, but snowbank should've refunded anyway.
Many of snowbank's friends agree that he should've refunded obnoxious OP nevertheless. Even though he is not entitled to.
Still, snowbank doesn't seem willing to refund. Not after spending several hours on AIM with OP.

The End - or maybe not?

I've deliberately cut out all the other noise in this thread.

So, what are people still arguing about? I'm not sure if I've missed anything. I must have, because I can't see the point in the ongoing dramabombing.

My impression is, that if OP had been mature enough to leave out the irrelevant details, instead of trying to trash snowbank out of spite, this thing would've been resolved about 350 posts ago. Probably even on a more positive note for both, OP and snowbank.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank [censored] some1 else sees it as it is

[/ QUOTE ]

? I don't get it, this is what everyone else thinks too.

[Kermit]

absolutetly not.