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#111
03-05-2007, 03:45 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. 
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#113
03-05-2007, 04:25 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
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 [/ QUOTE ] Since it seems that nobody in this thread has any idea who the guy I pictured above is, here you go. Jerry Garcia proclaimed Steve Kimock to be his favorite unknown guitarist. Steve Kimock in KVHW performing "Bad Hair" Steve Kimock performing with New Monsoon Steve Kimock with Zero plays "Catalina Jam" Steve Kimock with Zero playing "Little Wing" Steve Kimock in KVHW "Tangled Hangers" Steve Kimock and Friends "Thing One" If you like what you've seen, his website is kimock.com.
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#114
03-05-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't specifically saying that I myself think the arguments should be this way, I'm saying that whenever th discussion of 'who's the greatest' pops up it tends to become a discussion of Hendtix vs. everybody else. SRV was cleaner, Page wrote and performed great songs,and guys like Duane Allman (the guy created a whole genre) don't quite get the respect they deserve (maybe that's a bad word.) Any one of these guys could be #1. I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package. yea he wasn't as clean as SRV and there are great arguments for all the other guys but Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart fromeverybody else. I think that's why nearly 40yrs. after his death the discussions come down to him vs. everyone else. I think that says a lot and for the time being I believe he should still get the top spot. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. Regardless of what you think of Clapton at least he's out there playing and still writing songs. FWIW most of my current favorite guitarists are guys like Norman Blake and Doc Watson and a slew of old country blues/hillbilly players that you can only hear on 78s and reissues, stuff like the Mississippi Sheiks. As a player that's where my tastes have changed and that's basically the music I play now, mostly acoustic. On the electric I've been playing stuff like Derek and the Dominos and delving into Duane Allman atm. I still play a few Hendrix/Zep songs too, but not nearly as much as I used to.
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#115
03-05-2007, 05:34 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
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[ QUOTE ] SRV is up there, and is as good as Jimi IMO Best Underrated (unknown) Guitar Player: Jake Cinninger from Umphrey's McGee [/ QUOTE ] BANG BANG! BB is no slouch either!! In the underrated category , how come no mention for... Keller Williams? [/ QUOTE ] Cinninger is absolutely amazing. Umphrey's is the [censored].
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#116
03-05-2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package...Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart from everybody else. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. [/ QUOTE ] Hendrix the total package..the guy barely touched the acoustic. "Intangiable quality"...being from America (whereas all the best rock guitarists at the time were largely English), being black, and dying young. I think that is the intangiable quality you are looking for. So Page gets deductions because the band broke up in respect for Bonham after 11 solid years of totally owning the rock world? His body of work is huge. Hendrix dies young yet his handful of years of work usurps Page's 11+ years? What if Hendrix were around 8 more years and put up a bunch of bricks? Also, your usage of "begging the question" is not right. Also, do you realize how huge it would be if Zep reunited and toured in N. America this year? I don't see why they have to to prove anything, but at the drop of a hat, they could steal a big chunk of the attention in rock music.
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#117
03-05-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't specifically saying that I myself think the arguments should be this way, I'm saying that whenever th discussion of 'who's the greatest' pops up it tends to become a discussion of Hendtix vs. everybody else. SRV was cleaner, Page wrote and performed great songs,and guys like Duane Allman (the guy created a whole genre) don't quite get the respect they deserve (maybe that's a bad word.) Any one of these guys could be #1. I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package. yea he wasn't as clean as SRV and there are great arguments for all the other guys but Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart fromeverybody else. I think that's why nearly 40yrs. after his death the discussions come down to him vs. everyone else. I think that says a lot and for the time being I believe he should still get the top spot. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. Regardless of what you think of Clapton at least he's out there playing and still writing songs. FWIW most of my current favorite guitarists are guys like Norman Blake and Doc Watson and a slew of old country blues/hillbilly players that you can only hear on 78s and reissues, stuff like the Mississippi Sheiks. As a player that's where my tastes have changed and that's basically the music I play now, mostly acoustic. On the electric I've been playing stuff like Derek and the Dominos and delving into Duane Allman atm. I still play a few Hendrix/Zep songs too, but not nearly as much as I used to. [/ QUOTE ] Ok fair enough wet wok. The only real point of contention that remains is your belief that Page's status has diminished because he hasn't done anything great since Zeppelin. I doubt that any of the greats would have continued to write and perform fresh and relevant material for decades after their initial rise to fame. But we'll never know for certain because so many of them died young. Apparently Page's biggest fault is having lived long enough to be open to the criticism of being washed up. Earlier in the thread you said something about Page having done some great stuff in Led Zeppelin, but other than that he's not done much. I think that's a ridiculous thing to say. He was the leader of one of the greatest rock bands in the world (certainly THE greatest rock band of the 1970s), and he dominated for an entire decade, which is more than you can say for any of his contemporaries. What he did during his time with Led Zeppelin should be more than enough to cement him as an all-time great. It's ridiculous to expect more of him. I wish you wouldn't bring up Clapton's continued recording/performing to diminish Page. Clapton is still enjoying himself and writing music that he wants to share, but he really hasn't created anything substantial or relevant in decades. Page spent more time at the top than any other guitarist. Which is why I find it strange that you can even conceive of attempting to lower him when comparing him against others who didn't last nearly as long.
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#118
03-05-2007, 06:54 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package...Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart from everybody else. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. [/ QUOTE ] Hendrix the total package..the guy barely touched the acoustic. "Intangiable quality"...being from America (whereas all the best rock guitarists at the time were largely English), being black, and dying young. I think that is the intangiable quality you are looking for. So Page gets deductions because the band broke up in respect for Bonham after 11 solid years of totally owning the rock world? His body of work is huge. Hendrix dies young yet his handful of years of work usurps Page's 11+ years? What if Hendrix were around 8 more years and put up a bunch of bricks? Also, your usage of "begging the question" is not right. Also, do you realize how huge it would be if Zep reunited and toured in N. America this year? I don't see why they have to to prove anything, but at the drop of a hat, they could steal a big chunk of the attention in rock music. [/ QUOTE ] No doubt on a Zep reunion, it would be incredible. And there's no doubt they owned rock music. Hendrix didn't play as much acoustic as he should've, maybe if he had more time that would've changed, possibly? But when he did it was pure gold: web page Hey man let's put it to rest, they're both great and I think we both know these lists and the arguments that ensue get almost nowhere. Cool?
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#119
03-05-2007, 07:13 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package...Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart from everybody else. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. [/ QUOTE ] Hendrix the total package..the guy barely touched the acoustic. "Intangiable quality"...being from America (whereas all the best rock guitarists at the time were largely English), being black, and dying young. I think that is the intangiable quality you are looking for. So Page gets deductions because the band broke up in respect for Bonham after 11 solid years of totally owning the rock world? His body of work is huge. Hendrix dies young yet his handful of years of work usurps Page's 11+ years? What if Hendrix were around 8 more years and put up a bunch of bricks? Also, your usage of "begging the question" is not right. Also, do you realize how huge it would be if Zep reunited and toured in N. America this year? I don't see why they have to to prove anything, but at the drop of a hat, they could steal a big chunk of the attention in rock music. [/ QUOTE ] No doubt on a Zep reunion, it would be incredible. And there's no doubt they owned rock music. Hendrix didn't play as much acoustic as he should've, maybe if he had more time that would've changed, possibly? But when he did it was pure gold: web page Hey man let's put it to rest, they're both great and I think we both know these lists and the arguments that ensue get almost nowhere. Cool? [/ QUOTE ] Nah man, I want to fistfight you.
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#120
03-05-2007, 07:14 PM
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Re: Is there even a close second to Jimi Hendrix?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ok more more factoid: The last time I saw a Guitar Player magazine ranking of the 100 top guitar soloes, Page had the #1 spot. Food for thought. [/ QUOTE ] Dilz...you made a great argument until this part. lol. Who cares who has the best solo? There is a lot of variance in that. And besides, Stairway isn't even Page's best solo, IMO. It's just revered as "quintessential". The argument you put forth was good though. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I agree with you for the most part. But in an argument about best guitar players' actual guitar playing ability, it seemed relevant to point out that our guy, who wok is lumping in with everyone else who is not Hendrix, is considered to have performed the best recorded solo in rock and roll history. That doesn't prove he's the best, but I think it does help prove he deserves enough respect not be thrown in with "all the rest," as wet wok seems to believe he should be. [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't specifically saying that I myself think the arguments should be this way, I'm saying that whenever th discussion of 'who's the greatest' pops up it tends to become a discussion of Hendtix vs. everybody else. SRV was cleaner, Page wrote and performed great songs,and guys like Duane Allman (the guy created a whole genre) don't quite get the respect they deserve (maybe that's a bad word.) Any one of these guys could be #1. I do still think with Hendrix it's the total package. yea he wasn't as clean as SRV and there are great arguments for all the other guys but Hendrix had some intangible quality that set him apart fromeverybody else. I think that's why nearly 40yrs. after his death the discussions come down to him vs. everyone else. I think that says a lot and for the time being I believe he should still get the top spot. I think Page could've spent the last 20-30 yrs. solidifying without question that he's the GOAT, it begs the question "why hasn't he? The fact that he kind of dropped off the map as an artist/performer IMO takes away something for me in considering him #1. Regardless of what you think of Clapton at least he's out there playing and still writing songs. FWIW most of my current favorite guitarists are guys like Norman Blake and Doc Watson and a slew of old country blues/hillbilly players that you can only hear on 78s and reissues, stuff like the Mississippi Sheiks. As a player that's where my tastes have changed and that's basically the music I play now, mostly acoustic. On the electric I've been playing stuff like Derek and the Dominos and delving into Duane Allman atm. I still play a few Hendrix/Zep songs too, but not nearly as much as I used to. [/ QUOTE ] Ok fair enough wet wok. The only real point of contention that remains is your belief that Page's status has diminished because he hasn't done anything great since Zeppelin. I doubt that any of the greats would have continued to write and perform fresh and relevant material for decades after their initial rise to fame. But we'll never know for certain because so many of them died young. Apparently Page's biggest fault is having lived long enough to be open to the criticism of being washed up. Earlier in the thread you said something about Page having done some great stuff in Led Zeppelin, but other than that he's not done much. I think that's a ridiculous thing to say. He was the leader of one of the greatest rock bands in the world (certainly THE greatest rock band of the 1970s), and he dominated for an entire decade, which is more than you can say for any of his contemporaries. What he did during his time with Led Zeppelin should be more than enough to cement him as an all-time great. It's ridiculous to expect more of him. I wish you wouldn't bring up Clapton's continued recording/performing to diminish Page. Clapton is still enjoying himself and writing music that he wants to share, but he really hasn't created anything substantial or relevant in decades. Page spent more time at the top than any other guitarist. Which is why I find it strange that you can even conceive of attempting to lower him when comparing him against others who didn't last nearly as long. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I guess the not playing thing is some sort of issue with me. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and wonder why he just sort of pulled way back, Led Zeppelin was so great maybe he felt like he could never top it--would be really hard to do btw. I think Hendrix would've been one of those guys playing until the bitter end. Obviously Clapton's best work is behind him, but it's a solid legacy. He has had hits as well, I don't think there's gonna be another Layla or anything but he's probably got a few more good ones in him. And I'm sure his album/concert sales are still robust, just like Zeps(albums) are I'm sure. Don't get me wrong if there's a Zeppelin reunion I'm first in line ready to pay my $200 or whatever ridiculous amount it would be. Page is definitely an all-time great. I think there are a few guys who have a legit claim to #1, I'd bet our top 20s are very similar though. Probably a matter of taste on #1.
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Linear Mode
