Interpretation and Religon

[NotReady]

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


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John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

[txag007]

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Okay txag, you claim that many other Christians (who claim to have experienced God) are wrong (and going to hell in some cases).

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At which point did I say many other Christians are going to hell?

[txag007]

When you choose to believe, you'll know.

[kurto]

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You aren't giving believers nearly enough credit for why they believe as they do. There is a difference between just "feeling" it, and actually experiencing God.

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You don't get it, txag. We've been down this road before and you're as blind to this point as ever. You're playing semantics but the point is NO different.

First of all, there is NO difference between "feeling" and "experiencing" God. That's the 'semantics' part.

And what's been pointed out that you don't get is that people of ALL religions EXPERIENCE their God. They all believe they are unique. Obviously they have it right because they experience God. The Muslims Experience God. Christians Experience God. Jew Experience God. Wiccans experience their God. The Aztecs 'experienced' their God. They're ALL right because they're ALL experiencing their God. Obviously there are multiple Gods have experiences with different people.

[kurto]

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I'm sure txag007 will accept that there are some deluded christians, though not deluded about their experience with God. I am curious how he would suggest someone assure themselves this belief is not the result of a mental aberration.


[/ QUOTE ]


John 10:

1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
6This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
7So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30"I and the Father are one."


37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."


41Many came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true."
42Many believed in Him there.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That clears it up. Clearly the Christians experience God and aren't deluded while people of other Faiths are.

That was so simple.

[txag007]

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there is NO difference between "feeling" and "experiencing" God.

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1. How do you know?
2. Experiencing God is not a feeling.

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The Muslims Experience God.

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Have you asked a Muslim about this?

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Wiccans experience their God.

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Have you asked a Wiccan about this?

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The Aztecs 'experienced' their God.

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Have any evidence of this?

Just asking, since I don't "get it".

[kurto]

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1. How do you know?
2. Experiencing God is not a feeling.


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For one - I'm using the vocabulary that other theists have used. I'm fairly certain on this forum as well that theists have used this word.

Second- From dictionary.com: DEFINITIONS OF FEELING -
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6. to experience the effects of:


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or if you prefer:
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9. to have perception by touch or by any nerves of sensation other than those of sight, hearing, taste, and smell.

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Have you asked a Muslim about this?


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I've heard them attest to as much in documentaries. (I watch a lot of religious stuff because I find it interesting.) I've also read a lot of materials on religion which often include testimonies of people of different religions attesting to their religious experiences.

More interesting - You HONESTLY believe that only Christians feel they experience/have a connection to their perceived God? If not, are you just asking questions for no good reason?

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Have you asked a Wiccan about this?


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Yes. I was friendly with a Wiccan in school and listened (incredulously) many times as she shared stories of her experiences.

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Just asking, since I don't "get it".

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The fact that you have to ask if people of other faiths have similar experiences shows an amazing amount of shelter or willful ignorance to the subject matter. And I mean no offense by that.

[txag007]

1. A feeling is an experience, but all experiences are not feelings.

2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.

So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same. Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

[kurto]

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1. A feeling is an experience, but all experiences are not feelings.

2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.

So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same. Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

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(1) I'm fairly certain they're pretty similar in the brain. Either way, I'm pretty sure its just semantics. No one is experiencing God in the sense that he's appearing in the flesh, performing a few miracles and then flying away on wings. Pretty much every theist who I've come across who shares their connection with their God is about the same as my friend in High School who had a crush on a gymnist. He just knew with all his heart and felt that their love was meant to be. was he objectively 'feeling' something? Of course. Was his interpretation of what he was experiencing accurate? Not even close.

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2. I believe that a) all other religions are not entirely false, and b) Satan exists, and he is a deceiver.


[/ QUOTE ] You believe it but the concrete proof that he exists? See #1 above. Of course if there was a Satan like figure... how would you know that the Muslims didn't have it right and that Satan wasn't fooling all the naive Christians like yourself? Perhaps all the Billions of people who don't share your faith are all foolish and you're the one too savvy for the Satan figure? That's what you would have to believe.

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So yes, I have no doubt that people of other religions "experience" their perceived gods, but its not the same.

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And you know its not the same.... because you WANT to believe its not the same. You are proving my point with your every post.

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Of course, you won't realize how Christianity is different until you choose to believe.

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You forget that I was a believer. If you have a rational mind you cannot choose to believe something for which there is no evidence. That would be borderline psychotic.

[txag007]

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how would you know that the Muslims didn't have it right and that Satan wasn't fooling all the naive Christians like yourself?

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Because I can compare the Bible to the Qu'ran.

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Perhaps all the Billions of people who don't share your faith are all foolish and you're the one too savvy for the Satan figure?

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No. Satan has even fooled me at times. He caused Adam and Eve to disbelieve God, and look at the relationship they shared with God! Nobody is immune to Satan's deception.

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for which there is no evidence

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