Peyton Manning, Greatest QB of all time?

[THAY3R]

I'm not saying LT2 sucks, he just doesn't belong in a comparison to Manning.

Do you think Michael Turner is the 2nd best RB in the last 2 years? What are your thoughts on Jesse Chatman?

[tdarko]

"per carry Michael Turner has been better than LT each of the past 3years"

Who cares? He has been put in positions to succeed, this doesn't make him better than already one of the greatest RB's of our generation.

Lol at thinking Turner is better when he gets 1 carry every twenty plays, when the defense thinks they are passing and he is blocking. The offense is centered around LT2 and the defense's objective for the game is to stop one guy, him. Yet he still dominates and we are comparing Turner to LT2?

[THAY3R]

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The offense is centered around LT2 and the defense's objective for the game is to stop one guy, him.

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Oh, so that's why 6 players on San Diego's Offense was selected to the Pro Bowl?

[PokerFink]

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"per carry Michael Turner has been better than LT each of the past 3years"

Who cares? He has been put in positions to succeed

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Then use DVOA instead of yards/carry, which considers the situation. Oh, wait, Turner is way better than Tomlinson in DVOA for the past 3 years as well.

A great deal of Tomlinson's success is due to the team around him. Likewise, remember when Edge was really good in Indy? He goes to Arizona and immediately sucks, while Indy plugs in a backup and a rookie and never misses a step. It's the system and the team, not just the RB.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Turner>Tomlinson.

[Jack of Arcades]

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I just feel lucky that I'm getting to watch one the best linebackers ever (Urlacher), one of the best RBs ever (LT) and one of the best QBs ever (Manning). It's all good.

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LOL @ putting Urlacher and LT in the same sentence as Manning.

Urlacher is the king of the tackle for an 8 yard gain, and LT's backup has outperformed him the last 3 years.

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dude, do you ever make a rational thought? LT's a top 10 RB of all time already and on pace for top 3-5....

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You think before the end of his career, LT's place in history will be ahead any of these guys?

Barry Sanders
Jim Brown
Walter Payton
Emmitt Smith
Eric Dickerson
O.J. Simpson
Marshall Faulk
Thurman Thomas

[Jack of Arcades]

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I just feel lucky that I'm getting to watch one the best linebackers ever (Urlacher), one of the best RBs ever (LT) and one of the best QBs ever (Manning). It's all good.

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LOL @ putting Urlacher and LT in the same sentence as Manning.

Urlacher is the king of the tackle for an 8 yard gain, and LT's backup has outperformed him the last 3 years.

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dude, do you ever make a rational thought? LT's a top 10 RB of all time already and on pace for top 3-5....

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per carry Michael Turner has been better than LT each of the past 3years

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tomlinson is averaging 2012!!!!!!! yards from scrimmage per year for his career, has never rushed for less than 1200 yards (never less than 1335 since rookie year).....anyone who would blindly use a yards/carry stat from a guy who gets 1/3 of the carries has to be kidding

EDIT: does anyone realize how ridiculous it is to average over 2000 yards from scrimmage a year for your entire career?

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LT has lead the league in YFS only once, has come in 2nd only once, and third only once. He's 38th all time.

[tdarko]

UCF,

Well when you mention 6 of the offense to the pro bowl in response to my comment, it is a little misleading. Their offense has great protection and that is what is going to the pro bowl. Other than LT2, Gates is the threat. You think the other teams are worried about Rivers? Lol. Ummm, its the same play over and over, run right to LT, screen left to LT. Mix in some passes to Gates along the way. SD won games w/o Rivers really ever having to go deep down the field b/c Tomlinson could do it all. Do you really think the offense WASN'T centered around LT? What exactly are you thinking?

BTW, why did you ignore everything else I said? The fact that Turner's name even came up in this thread (LT as well) is surprising.

Take LT off the team and I don't believe Rivers makes the pro bowl. W/o LT, Gates' production would go down as well, unless you disagree that Rivers could carry the team, which he showed he couldn't when he needed to.

[prohornblower]

I still don't think there is a large gap in ability between average starter and average immediate back-up.

Obviously the best starters are >>>>>>>>>>> the best backups, but the average isn't very different. Back-ups don't get a chance for several reasons:

1) They are too old like Garcia
2) They are behind a first round draft pick who will get 3+ solid years to prove himself (Rosenfels/Carr)
3) They narrowly lose out on the starting spot in pre-season.
4) They are in-training to take over when a legend leaves town (Rogers/Favre).

I still stand by my statement that in some instances, some coaches are afraid to give another guy a shot for fear of QB controversy. Having a QB controversy is a real quick way to get your ass fired from coaching.

And I still haven't heard a great argument for why Peyton takes every single snap. I've heard a reason for why Sorgi doesn't, but that isn't a reason why Peyton does.

[THAY3R]

tdarko,

I just think you are greatly overrating LT's ability and his value/impact on a team. Agree to disagree.

[tdarko]

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Then use DVOA instead of yards/carry, which considers the situation. Oh, wait, Turner is way better than Tomlinson in DVOA for the past 3 years as well.

A great deal of Tomlinson's success is due to the team around him. Likewise, remember when Edge was really good in Indy? He goes to Arizona and immediately sucks, while Indy plugs in a backup and a rookie and never misses a step. It's the system and the team, not just the RB.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Turner>Tomlinson.

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Hmmm. I know you set a disclaimer down there and if you see my previous post about the pro bowl you will see that I understand about his team around him, he has sick protection, a great fullback, basically a map to be a success. So what? I could see using this arguement if you are comparing LT2 to LJ or Stephen Jackson or any of the top tier RB's in the league but don't compare it to a guy that gets a carry every once in a blue moon in situations that are perfectly set for him (or else he wouldn't be in there).

If Turner's DVOA and numbers etc. indicate better than LT then why don't they give him all of the carries, I think I know why.