Gigabet river play - Page 2

Roman · #11 02-09-2006, 04:16 PM

zzzzzzzzz you guys are results orientated, this river is an easy value raise, I would have played it the same way as Giga (barring any other details left out)

Ansky · #12 02-09-2006, 04:22 PM

standahd

Foucault · #13 02-09-2006, 04:48 PM

I understand that a lot of you think this is standard. The reason I posted it is that I'd like to know the reasoning behind it. My read of the situation is that when Villain checks the turn, he is acknowledging the possibility of the flush. Either he has just made a flush OR he is considering the possibilty that Hero has just made a flush. Both of these scenarios bode poorly for a value raise on the river, because Villain will either be hesitant to call with a worse hand, or Hero will (apparently) be committing himself to call a push from what is likely to be a flush.

As for calling the push, I realize Hero is getting good odds, but with what hands besides a flush do you think Villain is leading the flop, checking when the third flush card comes on the turn, then three-betting the river? This was my thought before I saw the results. Gigabet was contemplating the call, and I felt like he was about to make a crying call with the straight that he had rivered.

For what it's worth, this was from a 180-man SnG. I hadn't been at the table long, so I don't know what read if any Gigabet had on the guy. I'm well aware that people are capable of playing like monkeys in these tournies, and I'm sure you can all recount anecdotes about times that you've seen bottom pair here, but I really feel like raising and planning to call a push is not profitable.

As I pointed out before, you have to get called or re-raised pretty often by a worse hand to make up for the times you double up a flush. Clearly a lot of players better than myself think that this will happen, so I'm hoping someone can elablorate on what kinds of hands they put Villain on that will play in this way.

Thanks.

schwah · #14 02-09-2006, 05:10 PM

not raising the river here is really really weak

calling the reraise is also a no brainer and i expect to be ahead more often than not

fro_dude · #15 02-09-2006, 05:18 PM

Nothing wrong with river play here...your river raise will simply be called by second best much more often than you will be re-raised for high +EV, and the pot odds give you an easycall of the re-raise. Cross your fingers and hope for a set/2 pair played badly.

jcm4ccc · #16 02-09-2006, 05:45 PM

wow, a gigabet play i can actually understand.

The sb's actions look pretty standard. Looks like the flop hit him a bit and he tried to take down the pot. He got worried that the turn card gave the villian his flush. He was reassured by the villian's turn check and then bet the river for value. He might have hit a two pair on the turn or river and likes his hand.

I wouldn't worry about the SB having the flush. I hope I would value bet the river like Gigabet did.

spyu · #17 02-09-2006, 07:22 PM

Is Gigabet famous? Who is he/she? I've seen the name tossed around.

Scary_Tiger · #18 02-09-2006, 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is Gigabet famous? Who is he/she? I've seen the name tossed around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Darrell Dicken

Foucault · #19 02-09-2006, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is Gigabet famous? Who is he/she? I've seen the name tossed around.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's one of the more successful/well known online players. He's had some live success as well. A lot of his popularity is due to some pretty [pick your adjective: innovate/creative/controversial/absurd] theories he's posted here.

gumpzilla · #20 02-09-2006, 08:31 PM

I'm with the OP here. Against crappy opponents I might raise here, but what worse hands are playing this hand this way? Betting on the end after many conceivable draws get there is suggestive that the opener has something. As far as worse hands go, it could be a T, a Q, two pair or a set. I don't think all that many Q's check the turn here, and same thing for two pair hands. Two pair and the set might call the river, but those don't seem like very likely hands (65, 64, 54 maybe, QT probably bets the turn). You're folding probably anything else you're beating - maybe AT calls but I doubt it. A flush is definitely not folding and probably pushing back. I think the range of flush hands that he could have is pretty substantial, and make up (I would guess) about 50% of his possible holdings that he'll call with here. So if he raises us with that flush draw, it's going to be a bad bet, in this situation.