Ftp stole my money

[MiltonFriedman]

If there were a players' collection service, what % would you pay to recover these funds ?

[Mustafa]

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If the HH will not prove cheating one way or another the FTP must have something else they made their decision. I still cant see why an independant party should not look over this case and make their judgement.

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because FT (and any other business) has the right to do things the way the want to.

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and what about the rights of the customer????????

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FTP's rules are clear.. among other things, when you agree to play at the site, you agree that "Full Tilt Poker management decisions are final in all matters."

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I was never a great reader since I got past elementary school and The Electric Company ran its course. When you agree to the Terms & Conditions of a site where you are in a different jurisdiction than the one you make the agreement with, how are disputes about the T's & C's settled??? When 2 entities enter into an agreement, there has to be some governing body available to rule over disputes, yes? Terms and Conditions are rarely an absolute. Companies have at will employment clauses that employees sign up to that get challenged in court every day.

[BurnleyMik]

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If the HH will not prove cheating one way or another the FTP must have something else they made their decision. I still cant see why an independant party should not look over this case and make their judgement.

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because FT (and any other business) has the right to do things the way the want to.

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and what about the rights of the customer????????

[/ QUOTE ]

FTP's rules are clear.. among other things, when you agree to play at the site, you agree that "Full Tilt Poker management decisions are final in all matters."

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I was never a great reader since I got past elementary school and The Electric Company ran its course. When you agree to the Terms & Conditions of a site where you are in a different jurisdiction than the one you make the agreement with, how are disputes about the T's & C's settled??? When 2 entities enter into an agreement, there has to be some governing body available to rule over disputes, yes? Terms and Conditions are rarely an absolute. Companies have at will employment clauses that employees sign up to that get challenged in court every day.

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Yes, you make some very good points here, but I believe from what I have read that a breach of T+C's means the account is frozen, the money confiscated and no emails are responded too.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] And FTP dont need an independant body to overlook these matters because they are obviously the almighty!!!! And the worst thing......many of their players agree with it...lol

[Jan]

Here, Doug says ericjones (aka rapperson) played NL:

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Rapperson played for a total of 14 sessions over the span of 4 hours (from about 12:30AM ET until 4:30AM ET on 9/7), against a total of less than 20 players. So for those of you wondering why nobody seems to have any hand histories against this player, this is why. It looks like rapperson was only chip dumped to from one other player who later turned out to be a credit card fraudster. With this ~$8K in cash he went on to play 25/50 NL, 100/200 NL and 25/50 PLO, this time ending up with the slightly under $14K we're talking about.

Doug

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[Jan]

And here ericjones says he played NL:

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No not at all full table 10/20 nl, moved up to 25/50 nl doubled up 4 or 5 times there and cashed out. Mostly with 5 or 6 people.

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I don't know where the idea that ericjones played limit came from. Funny how he's not correcting that either.

[Jan]

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What kind of evidence do you want me to provide if I don't have access to my hand historys or nothing. As I said before I sent them my Id and utility bill when I knew I engaged in credit card fraud? How does that make sense?

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That's interesting. In this post you seem to be saying you believe someone committed credit card fraud and you are just a victim.

Yesterday, in either this post or another, you said you didn't believe there was ever any credit card fraud. And now it looks like you have edited that out.

I have a few questions ericjones.

How long have you been playing online poker?

What site do you typically play on?

What is your screen name on that site?

How much have you won/lost in the past year before this horrible tragedy occurred?

What poker forums/poker books do you or have you read?

What's the first online site you've ever played at?

What's the most you've ever won at one sitting?

What games do you typically play online?

How many of your friends play poker online?

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Come on ericjones, why won't you answer these questions? Afraid you may become even more suspect?

[BurnleyMik]

I think you should answer these questions too eric. It may help give a clearer definition of yourself.

[Wahoo73]

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I don't know where the idea that ericjones played limit came from.

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See my post in this thread at 12:56 PM: ericjones claims that FTPDoug stated that he had played in "30/60 limit, 100/200 limit" games, but nowhere in this thread does FTPDoug actually state that. So unless Doug communicated that to eric privately, I assume that eric is incorrect. Also, it's never made clear by anyone what games were played under the first account that eric established, the ones in which he won an undetermined amount of money from seven fraudulent accounts and then subsequently lost to an unmentioned and undetermined number of opponents.

The more I consider this last point, the more convinced I become that FTP was actually the victim of a successful money laundering scheme with ericjones' first account and session(s). Obviously if this is the case, it would be an extreme source of embarrassment for FTP, would give the perpetrator(s) a great motive for finding out as much as they could from FTP about why the first scam worked and the second one didn't, and why neither FTP nor the accused have been forthcoming with any great amount of detail regarding this portion of the story.

[Sniper]

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If the HH will not prove cheating one way or another the FTP must have something else they made their decision. I still cant see why an independant party should not look over this case and make their judgement.

[/ QUOTE ]


because FT (and any other business) has the right to do things the way the want to.

[/ QUOTE ]

and what about the rights of the customer????????

[/ QUOTE ]

FTP's rules are clear.. among other things, when you agree to play at the site, you agree that "Full Tilt Poker management decisions are final in all matters."

[/ QUOTE ]
I was never a great reader since I got past elementary school and The Electric Company ran its course. When you agree to the Terms & Conditions of a site where you are in a different jurisdiction than the one you make the agreement with, how are disputes about the T's & C's settled??? When 2 entities enter into an agreement, there has to be some governing body available to rule over disputes, yes? Terms and Conditions are rarely an absolute. Companies have at will employment clauses that employees sign up to that get challenged in court every day.

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Yes, you make some very good points here, but I believe from what I have read that a breach of T+C's means the account is frozen, the money confiscated and no emails are responded too.... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] And FTP dont need an independant body to overlook these matters because they are obviously the almighty!!!! And the worst thing......many of their players agree with it...lol

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ALL players EXPLICITLY AGREE to this when they make the decision to play at Full Tilt (and all online poker sites have similar language).

[BurnleyMik]

Although you are probably right Sniper, I am pretty sure that most of the players, with retrospect, will have no idea what they are letting themselves in for if a dispute arises.