Ftp stole my money

[Jan]

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No there doesn't. You seem to forget that you(eric jones) have admitted to creating a second account. That alone is grounds for banning and confiscation of funds.

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There is nothing inherently wrong with opening a second account if the person opening the account didn't have fraudelent intentions, and just didn't know the rules.

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Didn't know the rules? How long as the guy been playing online poker? This would imply that it hasn't been very long.

So, this means ericjones is new to online poker. He signs up at FTP, deposits his max limit, plays his first game on FTP and just happens to be the unwitting victim of credit card fraud, wins a bunch of money and then goes on to blow the whole thing.

So what does he do? He creates a 2nd account, is again the unwitting victim of credit card fraud and wins a whole bunch of money. Not to mention that if he is indeed new to online poker and didn't understand the rules, it's pretty amazing how he figured out how to fund two accounts without any problems.

So, since ericjones must have felt like a pig in [censored] for being the lucky son of a bitch he so obviously is, he decides to cash it all out immediately. But he is told that his account is frozen.

Then, other than sending FTP a few e-mails, he waits patiently for his 14K. What took him so long to end up here complaining or trying to find other "victims" of FTP?

So, which of his stories are we to believe?

1. ericjones is fairly new to online poker, creates two accounts because he is unaware that is against the terms of agreement, then he plays in some pretty large stakes NL games (as per ericjones. Someone keeps saying he was playing limit and it's hard to chip dump at limit, but according to both ericjones and FTPDoug, it is NL). Then he has the unfortunate luck to win a bunch of money from people who are committing credit card fraud. Why ericjones would end up with all that money and not one of the credit card fraudsters, well, like I said, he is one LUCKY son of a bitch! Then he goes on to lose this money playing against people who are not committing fraud and loses it all. BUT, he then happens to again sit down and play against someone committing credit card fraud and again wins a bundle! LUCKY MAN!

or

2. ericjones opens a new account a FTP. He is not a regular player, in fact according to him he plays occasionally on Stars and Noble. He plays and wins all this money legitimately, as well as starting 2 accounts for perfectly a perfectly good reason, and FTP picks him out of the blue to steal 14K from. BUT, even though ericjones won this 14K legitimately, he isn't seeking the return of those funds??? COME ON! If like he said in one post he didn't believe he played against those committing fraud, then why wouldn't he demand ALL his money?

And if he DOES believe he played against credit card scammers, then he was one LUCKY son of a bitch that they "just happened" to dump their money to him.

But, alas, FTP caught on to the scammers, and poor innocent ericjones had his money confiscated.

I guess he is one UNLUCKY son of a bitch!

[blackize]

Well the penalty for breaching the T&Cs isn't set forth in the document but it does say account closure/banning and funds forfeiture are possible. I think everyone who created a second account for rakeback at Party knew the risks, I know I was worried up until my first cashout went through without problems.

[MicroBob]

Regardless, FTPDoug still said that they wouldn't seize a player's funds for this and this is generally understood.


If they did seize his funds just for having a 2nd account then there would be a lot of people who vaguely remember having an account there 2 yrs ago before opening their 2nd one who would stop playing there.


Most reasonable people (including FT support it appears) agree that creating a 2nd account is not justification for seizing funds.
I do agree that such stuff could be spelled-out more specifically in their T&C's a bit better so as to avoid such confusion.

[MicroBob]

Also, I disagree that everyone at Party knew the risks.

There were some people who didn't even know that rakeback was against the rules at all or that when they get it they should stay quiet about it.


If Party seized all the funds from everyone that got rakeback there would have been a LOT of people saying they had no idea Party could do that.

Whether or not they SHOULD have known is a different story

I'm sure many people who see the commercials for Party-dot-net who don't follow it too closely just assume that it's an American company.

Rake-back would frequently get spammed in the chat-box.
Thus some real idiots who have no clue what is going on or what risks they were taking have received instructions on how to open a 2nd account and get RB there.

Some of the scummier affiliates are pretty ruthless about just getting the sign-ups and they don't tell them anything else.

[dlk9s]

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There are many possible reasons that FTPDoug has not been back.

1) He lost his job for criticizing FTP practices and getting involved in things like this
2) He was told to drop it or risk his job
3) He is very busy and doesn't have time
4) He looked into it, saw it was clear cut and doesn't care to "prove" anything


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5) It's the weekend.

[Brayn]

1. He comes here with zero posts.

2. The OP says he turned 600$ into 14 000 $ in a couple of days (in two days). This by itself is very unlikely, although possible.

3. In his story he "forgets" to mention that he had open two accounts. Actually, when other posters are asking him if he thought by himself what FTP could be thinking he has done wrong, he said that he doesn't have a clue.

4. He said he has no hand histories. Another weird thing. How many guys which play at the highest limits available online doesn't have a tracking software? And even if he doesn't have it, what aboout hand history files saved on hard disk? Doesn't have that too? Well, too bad.

5. Later he says he just wants "his" (?) 600$ back. If you won 14 000 $ by playing legitimate poker play, you DO NOT want 600 dollars back and will NEVER SAY you want "just your 600 back". You want 14K, nothing less.

6. He lied that he played at 10/20 NL.

7. He did not tell us his username, although several posters asked him for it. We found out his username from FTPDoug.

8. He said he has no hand histories. Another weird thing. How many guys which play at the highest limits available online doesn't have a tracking software? And even if he doesn't have it, what aboout hand history files saved on his hard disk? Doesn't have that too? Well, too bad.

9. Obviously nobody from 2+2 hasn't found any hand histories against him. Maybe because of this:

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Rapperson played for a total of 14 sessions over the span of 4 hours (from about 12:30AM ET until 4:30AM ET on 9/7), against a total of less than 20 players. So for those of you wondering why nobody seems to have any hand histories against this player, this is why.

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Anyone who believes this troll is not very intelligent person.

[MicroBob]

not many people believe him.

Wanting a more thorough conclusion to this from FT does NOT mean one believes Eric.


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Another weird thing. How many guys which play at the highest limits available online doesn't have a tracking software? And even if he doesn't have it, what aboout hand history files saved on hard disk? Doesn't have that too? Well, too bad.

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I suspect far more people than you would think don't have the tracking software.
I think Matusow even said he doesn't use it. But I might not be remembering that correctly.

HH's saved on your hard-drive: you have to specifically select the setting for that in the lobby I believe.


Him not having the HH's is perfectly believeable.


the better question is why won't FT give him the HH's since it's so easy for anyone to do it themselves in the first place.

[pipedreamz]

posting emails that you got banned is not evidence to prove your case.

it simply shows you got banned.

eric and mik, you guys should get a 3rd person to register and take your side. help rebuild some momentum [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[blackize]

You are right that there were some scummy affiliates who could have gotten people in trouble. I for one never saw anything about rakeback spammed, but I was mainly a SNG player.

I also realize that most sites response to creating a 2nd account is not to seize the funds and I think it would be overkill to do so I was just pointing out that they have that option.

[blackize]

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the better question is why won't FT give him the HH's since it's so easy for anyone to do it themselves in the first place.

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Yeah its quite possible and also pretty likely that eric didn't have hand history logging enabled and thus didn't save his own records, but who is to say that Full Tilt has not provided the records to eric? He hasn't been forthcoming with any other information here and since this whole thing smells like a scammer trying to repay the site that caught him with some bad publicity I definitely wouldn't rule it out.

I for one would be rather disappointed if a site directly posted my HHs on a message board because someone asked them to. For example someone who knows my full real name could create a posting account called Brettxxxx demanding my HHs be posted. It just isn't a very secure way of handling things and I would hope that sort of thing would be dealt with through emails with the email address on file for that account.