Ftp stole my money

[MicroBob]

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you have nothing better to do with your time?


[/ QUOTE ]


Obviously.


(actually, I could do some laundry and/or clean up around my place a little....but I'm procrastinating)

[Quanah Parker]

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you have nothing better to do with your time?


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Obviously.


(actually, I could do some laundry and/or clean up around my place a little....but I'm procrastinating)

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Hey, I think I'll play a little online poker, becasue my account isn't locked, because I don't steal credit cards or collude.
I might even look up some hand histories where I went on sick heaters, because I keep my hand histories.
Heck, maybe I'll cash out a few thousand.
Why?
Because I can.
Yup, gonna be a sweet night.

GL to all you legit players!

[pipedreamz]

[ QUOTE ]
well there is still no FTPdoug showing up to back up what he said previously. Basically if he comes on here and says what he said then surely he must have access to some hard evidence rather than just this speculation. I am also a little concerned that Eric is not pushing this a little harder not only for the 14k, but also for principle. If I was accused of fraud I would be fighting pretty damned hard to clear my name. Have you just become resigned to the fact your money is gone eric? Because I know that I would not be. There most be some kind of governing body above all the poker/gambling sites to which you can take this issue?

Anyway come on FTPdoug, come-back with some evidence, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty guys? Quite a few of you are jumping to conclusions, either way, without any kind of factual evidence whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

another troll out of the wood work

[Terry]

Eric,

I happen to live in Stroudsburg, too. How would you like to get together for a little chat with a long time 2+2er who has some experience in casino surveillance?

Can't say that it would prove anything or that I'm any great judge of character but it might be interesting.

10 o'clock tonight at Flood's; I'll buy the beer. Say the word and I'll be there.

Terry

[janeytopset]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I think I'll play a little online poker, becasue my account isn't locked, because I don't steal credit cards or collude.
I might even look up some hand histories where I went on sick heaters, because I keep my hand histories.
Heck, maybe I'll cash out a few thousand.
Why?
Because I can.
Yup, gonna be a sweet night.

GL to all you legit players!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. My fav post in this whole thread.

[Gotmilk]

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That the point I didn't get any HH's and they will not give me them.

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So you did'nt even save HH's when you played? And you don't remember anything about the sickest heater of your life?

This sounds more and more credible...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the kind of attitude that bothers me when players are seeking help in a conflict with a website. Not everyone are hardcore poker players that save hand histories and have easy recall of hands played. They are casual gamblers. Casual gamblers should not be chastised for that, they should be encouraged to play more. And if a casual gambler comes to us looking for help, we should be ready and willing to take up the cause.

I can completely buy that he doesn't remember the details of his hands. Take chess for example. One thing that bothers me is the comedic joke of two chessnerds playing a chess game, and the bully coming up and destroying the board and laughing, and the chess nerds being upset. Being a chessnerd, I know that if that ever happened, it wouldn't be a problem because memorizing the position in play comes very easy to me and I'd be able to reset the position. The same could be said about games that I've played in the past; I have the ability to replay from memory entire games that I've played, yet this would seem like magic to the casual player. I talk to bad poker players (and many good ones) all the time who can't remember the details properly of a hand played 2 minutes ago, let alone of those played two and a half months ago.

Rather than hunt people down for not being able to remember every detail, we need to pressure the poker sites to explain themselves and defend themselves, because the casual player has no recourse. Blasting people for not being poker nerds, not being eloquent in a forum, and not having many posts is short-sighted and lets big, profitable, unpoliced companies off the hook far too easily.

I don't want this to sound like I am defending Eric personally, because on face he seems guilty. But I am bothered by how much people are abused on here for not being eloquent and not having tons of posts. Particularly in an instance when it is a site that is quickly building a bad reputation in these types of issues. We should be giving people the benefit of the doubt until the situation is resolved--especially when he is so persistent in his innocence. But I'd love to string him up by the balls if it turns out he is clearly guilty.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
Eric,

I happen to live in Stroudsburg, too. How would you like to get together for a little chat with a long time 2+2er who has some experience in casino surveillance?

Can't say that it would prove anything or that I'm any great judge of character but it might be interesting.

10 o'clock tonight at Flood's; I'll buy the beer. Say the word and I'll be there.

Terry

[/ QUOTE ]

He has nothing legit to share with you, therefore, expect to be drinking beer alone 2nite.

[PoorLawyer]

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“Eric needs to come forward with some details of the incidents in question before FTP is obligated to anything IMO. He can't just keep pleading the 5th.”

Is this how burdens of proof work? I thought defendants plead the fifth in response to the government’s allegations of misconduct. The government then cannot impose penalties until it makes its case without the defendants’ testimony. Here, Fulltilt seized Eric’s money pending an investigation, which I understand. However, before Fulltilt can permanently impose a penalty on Eric, it has the burden of substantiating its case. Doug may be a nice guy. But his word is not good enough for me. My money may be coming out of Fulltilt shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]

FT is not a U.S. Court of law my friend. They are not a U.S. Company. This is not a legal action. If it was, I would guess eric is a minor based on his grammer and spelling. Even if it was in court, other countries' legal systems operate differently than ours and, in fact, some would put the burden of proof on Eric to prove he didn't do it.

If he wants his money at this point, he needs to give an explanation for his actions. He hasn't even tried.

[BurnleyMik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well there is still no FTPdoug showing up to back up what he said previously. Basically if he comes on here and says what he said then surely he must have access to some hard evidence rather than just this speculation. I am also a little concerned that Eric is not pushing this a little harder not only for the 14k, but also for principle. If I was accused of fraud I would be fighting pretty damned hard to clear my name. Have you just become resigned to the fact your money is gone eric? Because I know that I would not be. There most be some kind of governing body above all the poker/gambling sites to which you can take this issue?

Anyway come on FTPdoug, come-back with some evidence, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty guys? Quite a few of you are jumping to conclusions, either way, without any kind of factual evidence whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

another troll out of the wood work

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I think thats a bit harsh. I am new to this site and I have been following the full thread so far. There is no need for stupid statements like this in regards to my first post.

[phish]

Gotmilk,

Very well said. Even I, who've been playing for a long time, routinely just delete my history without looking at them or loading them onto poker tracker, because I feel my time is simply better spent playing than reviewing hands.
And I cannot tell you who I won a lot from or lost a lot to 2.5 months ago.

Some people are stating as fact that Eric cheated just because FTPDoug said so. How can Eric ever prove that he didn't if they don't even provide the 'evidence' on which they base their charges so that he could refute them.

And I'll bet that FTPDoug never actually looked at the hands himself. He just took the word of some guy in their Fraud Dept. Mistakes (or malicious acts) do happens, and do any of you really want your entire bankroll to be at the mercy of one guy in the Fraud Dept who may simply be having a bad day and decide to screw someone over, with no possibility of appeal or review?

At the very least, I'd like FTPDoug to answer this:

How exactly does their review for fraud/cheating work? How many people review them? Whenever money is seized (a pretty serious action), are there any automatic safeguards that ensures that it was not done arbitrarily (e.g., gets automatically reviewed by a supervisor)?