betting/ raising when you/ they cant have it

[Nomar]

typical senerio

sb opens, bb 3 bets
flop 678
check/ bet/ call
turn 9
sb checks

how often BB betting to fold to a raise ?
seems like if they have a real hand (with no ten) they are checking behind, and when they missed they are firing a second barrel and giving up pretty easily to any resistance...

thoughts ?

[Scary_Tiger]

Versus most opponents, I'm not bet/folding anything to a raise on this board. I'm checking behind draws like AJ-AK, KJ-KQ, JQ, and marginal hands like A8 or lower with intention of calling a river bet. Anything stronger than 94 I'm bet/calling down for value. (And bet/3-betting a T or better.)

[Nomar]

[ QUOTE ]
Versus most opponents, I'm not bet/folding anything to a raise on this board. I'm checking behind draws like AJ-AK, KJ-KQ, JQ, and marginal hands like A8 or lower with intention of calling a river bet. Anything stronger than 94 I'm bet/calling down for value. (And bet/3-betting a T or better.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, with the exception of KQ, you cant check behind and then call the river, so Im firing KQ again and folding to a raise...

[xZExROx]

great question, and thanks for the response Scary, really got me thinking...

[stoxtrader]

if you are OOP in this hand i like the turn c/r with a draw line. in position it depends on what he knows you know.

[siegfriedandroy]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are OOP in this hand i like the turn c/r with a draw line. in position it depends on what he knows you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey stox. what do you mean by a 'draw' in this hand? do you mean a hand that is drawing to beat a made straight? Im confused...as for your second sentence, could you perhaps provide an example of such psychology, and how it might affect your decision (if you have the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ). thanks

[siegfriedandroy]

[ QUOTE ]
Versus most opponents, I'm not bet/folding anything to a raise on this board. I'm checking behind draws like AJ-AK, KJ-KQ, JQ, and marginal hands like A8 or lower with intention of calling a river bet. Anything stronger than 94 I'm bet/calling down for value. (And bet/3-betting a T or better.)

[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure there is sufficient value in bet/calling down your pretty good hands here? why do you think that bet/calling down is better than checking behind and calling a river bet, with say, an overpair, to perhaps induce a bluff (and save 2 bets when behind)? i am not really sure which line is actually best, just curious to hear your reasoning. im not really sure that 'typical' opponents are check raise bluffing often enough on such scary boards to make your line best. i play from 3/6ish to 15/30ish short, and am starting to think I should (generally) start having more respect for turn check raises, primarily b/c the 'c/r turn' stats of most of my opponents are usually like 5% or less. however, it does seem through experience that i am check raise bluffed more often than these stats seem to suggest. but i dont think the #'s are lying! anyway, curious to hear what you think.

[exalted]

I too would really like to hear further thoughts from Stox / others about this concept. I don't think I give enough respect to turn c/rs (and end up folding when I have just overs or nothing). In 6max I'm rarely folding TPGK to a turn c/r unless the board is monotone / equally scary.

I think I need to learn to value check the turn more or to read hands better. Any further thoughts on OP's post though would be great, this situation is really not that uncommon.

[Bill King]

[ QUOTE ]
I too would really like to hear further thoughts from Stox / others about this concept. I don't think I give enough respect to turn c/rs (and end up folding when I have just overs or nothing). In 6max I'm rarely folding TPGK to a turn c/r unless the board is monotone / equally scary.

I think I need to learn to value check the turn more or to read hands better. Any further thoughts on OP's post though would be great, this situation is really not that uncommon.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think its player dependant to an extent, in that most people are going to mix up checking and betting with any J/draw type hand.. the biggest question is which ones will fold to a raise and which ones will defend if they put you on a re-steal.

[catcher193]

wow im retarded though this was the NL section.