Curtains vs PoG

[TimM]

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how exactly do people plan on opposing Qd4 and Bb2?

Rc8 seems pointless because Qd4 puts his queen in a pretty good spot and forces us to play either a6 or b6, so we don't even gain tempo.

i think we either play Qb6 or Ne4 followed by Qf6, which i find particularly sexy but haven't really looked at it too closely.

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On 17...Rc8 18.Qd4 Rc2 I'n not sure he has time for 19.Qxa7 since 19...Ne4 threatens Qf6 which attacks the Ra1 and the f2 pawn a third time. This looks really strong.

And 19.Bb2 Re4 picks off the bishop. If he can't even set up this Qd4/Bb2 battery, he might just go 18.Qd3 instead of 18.Qd4.

[xorbie]

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On 17...Rc8 18.Qd4 Rc2 I'n not sure he has time for 19.Qxa7 since 19...Ne4 threatens Qf6 which attacks the Ra1 and the f2 pawn a third time.

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isn't Rc8 susceptible to Bd2 which forces us to move back or face Bc3 which traps the rook in? if we moves the queen over to protect from Bc3, he can just move a rook over and exchange rooks, forcing us to move Qa8 to protect the pawn, which just doesn't look too fantastic.

[TimM]

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On 17...Rc8 18.Qd4 Rc2 I'n not sure he has time for 19.Qxa7 since 19...Ne4 threatens Qf6 which attacks the Ra1 and the f2 pawn a third time.

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isn't Rc8 susceptible to Bd2 which forces us to move back or face Bc3 which traps the rook in? if we moves the queen over to protect from Bc3, he can just move a rook over and exchange rooks, forcing us to move Qa8 to protect the pawn, which just doesn't look too fantastic.

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I assume you mean after 17...Rc8 18.Qd4 Rc2 19.Bd2

Don't just say oh, he can do this and if we do that he does this and we're in trouble. Now go back and see if there is another move that stops the idea. Look for something that serves more that one purpose. Hint: How about something that covers c3 yet doesn't give him time for Rc1 because it also threatens something else? And consider that for every move in your variation there is a chance that there may be a better move for either side. This is how you analyze a chess position.

[xorbie]

yeah i had looked at 20. Qa5 but missed the knight somehow.

[StregaChess]

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If he can't even set up this Qd4/Bb2 battery, he might just go 18.Qd3 instead of 18.Qd4.


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I agree if we play Rc8, I think his move is Qd3. I think he’s taking a very deliberate approach, trying to eliminate counter play, and focusing on our “weak” d pawn.

[ChrisV]

In this position I think rather than "what should we do", the correct question is "what is our opponent's plan". If we don't move over the next few moves, he will play Bb2, Re1 and say Qd3, after which he'll trade off minor pieces and win the pawn.

I think there are two ways to counter this plan. We can either try to play d4 and either create a passed pawn or trade the pawn off, ridding ourselves of the weakness. Or, we can attack somehow on the kings side or in the center.

Rc8 looks very natural, but I'm not sure it assists us in countering his plan.

[TimM]

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I agree if we play Rc8, I think his move is Qd3. I think he’s taking a very deliberate approach, trying to eliminate counter play, and focusing on our “weak” d pawn.

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OK so, before we can play 17...Rc8 though, do we have enough for the pawn on 18.Qd4 Rc2 19.Qxa7 Ne4 20.Qd4 and how do we proceed?

What do we have on 18.Qd3? 18...Ne4 Bb2 and then?

[Lori]

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In this position I think rather than "what should we do", the correct question is "what is our opponent's plan". If we don't move over the next few moves, he will play Bb2, Re1 and say Qd3, after which he'll trade off minor pieces and win the pawn.

I think there are two ways to counter this plan. We can either try to play d4 and either create a passed pawn or trade the pawn off, ridding ourselves of the weakness. Or, we can attack somehow on the kings side or in the center.

Rc8 looks very natural, but I'm not sure it assists us in countering his plan.

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I quite like the look of Qc8 with the intention of moving to g4 and invading the white squares while adding some defense against the threatened fianchettoed Bishop.

I'm not really in favor at the moment of anything that doesn't prevent him lining up his Bishop and Queen at our King, as our defense doesn't seem very adequate.
I think with Qc8 we end up in a lot of lines where we trade Queens, get the open file first and end up with a difficult but manageable endgame.

That all being said, I'm not sure _I_ could manage the ensuing endgame against a player like curtains, but feel that the rest of the forum probably could [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Lori

[NajdorfDefense]

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If he can't even set up this Qd4/Bb2 battery, he might just go 18.Qd3 instead of 18.Qd4.


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I agree if we play Rc8, I think his move is Qd3. I think he’s taking a very deliberate approach, trying to eliminate counter play, and focusing on our “weak” d pawn.

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...Rc8
Qd3 Ne4 seems standard here, advancing our N and blocking the e-pawn. Then we bring our Q over to the Kingside and get her involved at some point.

[StregaChess]

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OK so, before we can play 17...Rc8 though, do we have enough for the pawn on 18.Qd4 Rc2 19.Qxa7 Ne4 20.Qd4 and how do we proceed?

What do we have on 18.Qd3? 18...Ne4 Bb2 and then?


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When I get home tonight I'll toss some pieces around. Without really doing the work of it I can only offer my "gut" right now.. so here it goes...

18.Qd4 Rc2
19.Qxa7 possibly we pause here to see what's possible?
Any value in 19... b6 cutting the queen off from d4? It may appear to be a wasted move but how can white punish it?

If 20. a4 Ne4 is a problem.

He could play something like 20. Qa6 to get back to d3, however d3 is not d4! and we have time to make a developing move when Qa6 is played.

On the idea of... 18. Qd3 Ne4 19. Bb2 possibly Qg5 is a playable move? Seems sort of fishy but may want to connect the rooks right?