Say goodbye to the dream

[El Diablo]

All,

Just as an FYI, here's the sort of upside opportunity for those who get to the top of this field:

SAC Capital, Stephen Cohen

Last year he reportedly made about a billion dollars.

There was an excellent WSJ or NYT profile of him a month or two ago.

He manages somewhere in the neighborhood of $10B. Some of his funds he takes management fees of up to 3% and takes up to 35% of the profits. His last $2B fund he waived the management fee and took 50% of the profits.

This guy of course is a superstar and few people will ever have the consistent success he has had that has allowed him to grow his funds to this scale. A more typical arrangement is someone taking a 1-2% management fee and then 20-30% of the profits. So, even if you aren't quite Stephen Cohen, but can get people to invest $50M in your fund and can make a 20% return for them, that's a pretty nice payday to get you started. There are tons of smart guys in this business who have managed to put together funds of a few hundred million at a pretty young age.

[El Diablo]

la,

"these guys are simply lucky."

I don't disagree. However, the guys that get lucky in this field make orders of magnitude more than the guys that get lucky in poker.

[El Diablo]

DB,

"Note that I took into account that I wanted my inheritance as part of the bet when I made my statement."

Good lord.

"Either way, Im realistic and know this would never go down anyway for reasons I dont want to state on a public forum."

Why the f wouldn't it? You don't think that for this type of deal we'd sit down with lawyers and get somethign rock-solid drafted up? Really all we're doing is setting up a trust fund with a few covenants, which is not that complicated at all.

[fish2plus2]

So the people who stake these guys are super rich gamblers?

[TopCornerPoker]

Seems like a very good decision to me. Working for 2 years or so gives you valuable experience to go along with your degree. Sometimes just having a degree is not good enough in order to get the job you want. In many respects having the work experience is just as valuable as your degree.

If I were you I would still play poker as much as I could in your spare time though. The extra money can't hurt and it seems like you really enjoy the game.

[CallYNotRaise06]

jason, good luck at your new job man. Im going into the financial area also, so ill be looking forward to seeing how you do.

One other thing, have you done the well in the ssnl forum yet? if not, do you think you could do one before you leave....best of luck.

[Ansky]

All that matters is happiness Jason.

If you do this and you love it, who gives a [censored] about money. I have no doubt there are people who make millions a year and aren't happy people, and there are people who make 40k a year who are happy, and vise versa of course. If you do this make sure it for all the right reasons. If you are willing to put in the work I am sure you can meet all of your expectations with this job.

I am somewhat envious of you though, in that you already have some sort of path. I have at least 2 years left of school (if I graduate that is...) and I really have no clue what I'm going to do with my life.

Good luck in the future, and pls let me still bug you with my puny 10/20 nl hand questions on yer spare time [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[cero_z]

[ QUOTE ]
Pay is exteremly standard for these jobs across the board (IE all trading firms tend to offer similar packages).

Its like 60k base, 10k signing bonus, and performance bonus which can be between 0 and something like 50-100k I guess? Most probably make slightly less than 100k in their first year.

edit: reason i decided to post numbers is because they are incredibly standard and i dont think it will piss off anyone

[/ QUOTE ]

Jason, I have a feeling you're getting shafted here, if your offers are in line with the numbers above. I could be wrong, but I'm basing it on a close friend's experiences. If you're interested, PM me, and I'll confirm it. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I remember his first job being quite a bit better, at smaller, lesser-known firms, and he has a similar pedigree as you, I think (definitely not as good at poker, but with better grades--no prior trading experience).

Anyway, I'll definitely miss your insight on these fora, and wish you the best. Congrats on landing what you were looking for.

Edit: I didn't read any other replies before posting, and now I've just read the handful above mine, but it appears that others may have said similar things. I in no way was trying to rain on your parade; just hoping you might get a better deal.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
All that matters is happiness Jason.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is sort of the thing that i wanna convey. especially because it seems that no matter what path you take, you're going to have a whole lot of money -- there's no question. so don't take this trading path because you're going to make MORE money than you will at poker -- who cares?

to be fair, i think the fact that you'll potentially make more money than poker has been brought up more by others than by you, but i just wanted to i guess express my hope that that wasn't your motivation. making a mil a year playing poker 20 hours a week is probably a hell of a lot of a better life than making 3 mil a year trading 60-80 hours a week.

if it were me, and this is obviously shaped by my own upbringing and all that sort of stuff, if i'm going to leave the very good lifestyle afforded to me by being an excellent poker player (i'm talking about myself in your shoes; i am not an excellent poker player), i'm going to do it because i'd like to do something "good for the world"; i'd like to contribute and leave something lasting behind in some way. i wouldn't do it merely because i think that trading is more interesting than poker; imo, the freedom afforded to you by poker (and the experiences you can have with that freedom) will be far more interesting than any problem or situation you could encounter as a trader.

just my opinion though, and i wish you the best.

[KRANTZ]

[ QUOTE ]
f2p,

This is quite possibly a dream job for anyone whose primary focus is making a lot of money. For someone who loves playing games for a living, this is largely just poker at the next level. People who would quickly get burned out playing poker are likely those who would quickly get burned out as a trader. However, someone who is talented and motivated enough to be very successful at poker is likely to have the talent and success to do well in this field.

Others, like myself, really enjoy solving problems and producing products and building companies. So, for us, that type of job might be pretty boring.

Some, like duck, might not be as focused on making a ton of money and instead want more complex or broader scope issues to tackle. For someone like that, management consulting is going to be a route that likely makes less money, but is for her possible orders of magnitude more interesting.

For yet others, they will only be really satisified with their lives if they are actively helping others on a day to day basis. These people will get far more joy out of being a teacher or social worker and making jacksht than being a rich trader.

And finally, some just love pursuing their passions in art, music, cooking, whatever far more than any amount of money.

So, no, this is far from some nirvana dream job. I could go on and on about the things that I think suck about the finance industry and the people who work in it. However, in terms of careers that share a lot in common with being a poker player and would likely be attractive to the same groups of people, this is a pretty damn good option and far more lucrative.

As far as how much money Jason is likely to make, it depends on how quickly he runs his own book and how quickly he is trading his own money or money that he raises.

I don't know any people who joined a firm and were making over a million within 2 to 3 years while at the firm. I do know people who joined a firm and after 2 to 3 years had someone stake them for 5-10M to trade on their own and they then got 25-50% of the profits.

[/ QUOTE ]

best post of the thread