Where's Our Statement

[peyote_sandwich]

Since Mason brought it up. All people like Senator Frist have to do to support their point about gambling corrupting young people is post a link to the forums and have people see the avatars like yours

Possibly, otoh this would result in him engaging in a debate about why he isn't remotely Nazi. Opponents can then point out that his reduction of freedoms has certain parallels. I suspect he would see that coming and be very unlikely to mention the avatar publicly. Mud sticks after all.

Of course, he isn't really remotely as bad as the actual Nazis, but caricature is always about exageration. I think its funny how some people are being deliberately obtuse in failing to recognise this.

Also, language evolves. Calling someone a Nazi today is generally taken to mean something like: "you are being dictatorial in some aspect of your behaviour". If you were discussing history and referred to Nazis then you mean the leaders of Germany in WW2. Language is full of subtleties like that.

[elrudo]

Mason,

do you consider any restrictions for the 2+2 forum users because of the new legislation ?
( other than that stupid avatar, which imho should be removed ASAP )

That is, maybe restrict discussion on how to work around the laws etcetera?

[disjunction]

Curtains,

Are you, in fact, going to eventually make a statement?

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not his opinions, it's the way he got his opinions passed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Artsemis:

I don't like the way the bill was passed either, but that is the way many bills are passed in our system of government. Also, whether we like it or not, the bill was approved by an overwhelming majority in the house. So it's very clear to me that there was virtually no one in our legislative side of government who was going to oppose it. So someone like Frist coule argue, and correctly so, that there was no need to consider this bill seperately and waste time debating it when everyone was going to agree with it anyway.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been trying to stay away from commenting on 2+2s actions, because I realize its easy for anonymous people to sit here and attack you guys, without having to worry about their image.

But from people that value logic so highly, I find this comment surprising. Most people will agree that national security >>>> online poker. Of course congressmen/women will vote for the bill. They aren't willing to sacrifice national security (or even have the appearance of it) to protect online poker. I would have vote for the bill if I were in congress, and I hate the online poker section (personal freedom anyone?).

[govman6767]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason,

do you consider any restrictions for the 2+2 forum users because of the new legislation ? More bans, more regulations, more rules ? What does an internet gambling ban have to do with people's freedom to post their ideas in this forum.
( other than that stupid avatar, which imho should be removed ASAP ) Why there is a good debate going on right now between the pros and cons of it. I think it's in bad taste (it's also funny)

That is, maybe restrict discussion on how to work around the laws etcetera?

[/ QUOTE ] Why ?

[uncleshady]

Wow, how did this turn into "waiting for Masons statement" to "that Frist Nazi avatar offends me". Who cares? It's a picture. We have real problems right now, like WE CANT PLAY EFFIN POKER ON THE NET. Jesus, people get your priorites straight. And you can keep that statement, it's obviously not going to solve anything.

[HappyStoic]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, whether we like it or not, the bill was approved by an overwhelming majority in the house. So it's very clear to me that there was virtually no one in our legislative side of government who was going to oppose it. So someone like Frist could argue, and correctly so, that there was no need to consider this bill seperately and waste time debating it when everyone was going to agree with it anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no. There were many holds on the bill in the Senate and strong resistance to attaching it to unrelated legislation. Dr. Frist knew that he wouldn't be able to pass the bill on his own merits, so he used dirty tricks to ram it through.

While it may be the way things are done, it's sure as hell not the way they should be done. In fact, it violates the Senate's own rules, but we've seen how good they are at policing themselves...

Also, Nelson Rose had an analysis of the bill up the very next day. If your attorney didn't use that as a starting point, I'd suggest that you're being overbilled.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi flair:

[ QUOTE ]
Butin this time which many consider a "crisis" it is natural for people to look to their mentors for guidance. Thus far you and David have not been there.


[/ QUOTE ]

We haven't been there because it's not what we do. Politics and how to influence it is something that we have no knowledge about and no capability. We're much better at how to play a poker hand or some other aspect of gambling.

What we did do was to create this site and work very hard at maintaining it. It has allowed many people to communicate with each other on this topic, and basically everything I know about the bill comes from reading here. Don't expect anything else.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason,

Thanks for updating everyone here in the forum. You make some very fair points about the nature of your expertise, the nature of your business, and the cold hard reality that 2+2 is not, and likely never will be, a lobbying organization. Nobody should expect otherwise, or hurl insults at you for failing to make such a conversion. You publish excellent books, and host a forum that I value a great deal (as do many others).

To the extent there is a lingering resentment in the forum, I believe that resentment has much more to do with the way you approached the question of the legislation pending in Congress, than your actual answer to it. Your stance is more than defensible, and you went above and beyond by incurring an expense in terms of both time and money to talk with your attorney. I was (and remain) a bit puzzled by the need to visit with a lawyer about a matter so simple as making a statement on pending legislation, given that commenting on such things is a constitutionally protected right and something that everyone is always free to do, whether they publish books or not. I was also puzzled by the fact that someone at 2+2 -- a staffer or mod or someone of lower-order -- was not authorized to use the vast informational resources available to the organization (e.g. member e-mail addresses, stickies in forums, a broadcast PM, etc.) to rally poker players and keep them informed. In that sense, 2+2 had a unique ability to reach thousands of people with little effort or cost. Understanding that a private business operates however it wants, and that there was certainly no duty to do so, I certainly am not upset that this did not happen. I thought it would have been advisable, and apparently others did not. So be it. But the time for debating whether that could or should have been done is over.

The best thing you can do, Mason, is to keep on doing what you do best. We'll try to keep the legislation forum full of ideas worthy of discussion and reading, and I'm sure many players will try to find ways to continue pursuing the game they love so dearly, and in some cases, profit from so much. We may or may not be successful in finding ways to keep playing, depending on how the new legislation plays out; and to some degree, your success will depend very heavily on ours.

Thanks again for posting, and I hope this discussion will continue to be civil and productive.

[Quanah Parker]

Here's a statement that I believe covers all the bases.

Thank you, William S Burroughs. RIP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Z_08o108E

[fyodor]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Fish:

[ QUOTE ]
However, if your statement is about what you and 2+2 will do to protect the rights of poker players in the future, I would be very interested in your plans and opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't plan to do anything. It's not what we do and we don't have the capability or the knowhow to do anything anyway. Our area of expertise is how to play poker hands and other aspects of gambling. It's not politics. We happen to be honest about what we can and can't do. So I wouldn't hold your breath expecting something dramatic from us.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Refreshing. I am long since sick of rock stars and movie stars and tv personalities attempting to tell me what is right and wrong with the world. I may enjoy your performance but it doesn't make your opinions any more valid than my own.

stfu and play your guitar