Easy preflop question

[RiverJammer1]

If you do raise ( i voted call),
What do you do if the flop come A, J, 5 in first position vs 2 villians.

You come out firing and they may fold, or u get called and are in big trouble.

With this hand i call because i want to win somebodies whole stack by catching a T on the flop. If a ten hits it makes for a nice slow play. Hopefully UTG bets, button folds, hero raises.

I think the real value of this hand is a set on the flop.
Re-raise and get re-raised and you don't even get to see the floop.

Get cold called by one or 2 players with your re-raise, and you our almost obligated to bet on the flop nomatter what hits.

Looks like trouble to me.
[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[c_strong]

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I'm squeezing with much worse here.

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I don't think squeezing an unknown UTG raiser is a great move here. If he had opened from the CO, maybe, but I'd still rather have a read...

Edit: and IMO a squeeze should be done with a mediocre/speculative hand, not a good one. Or is this what you meant?

[los_toros]

If you call it's a tough hand to play OOP against a big raise UTG.

There is already a ton of dead money in the pot that I want.

We have a very good hand.

For these reasons and more, I repop it near the size of the pot.

[Hince]

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I've said it before...I don't like reraising these sort of hands. They have huge showdown value and obv great set value, and we just take sooo much of that away by reraising.


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How you going to get to showdown cheap OOP? It's also hard to build a pot OOP when you flop a set. I'm not saying you should always raise in this spot, but I prefer raising and winning the pot if our fold equity is high.

[kitaristi0]

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I've said it before...I don't like reraising these sort of hands. They have huge showdown value and obv great set value, and we just take sooo much of that away by reraising.


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How you going to get to showdown cheap OOP? It's also hard to build a pot OOP when you flop a set. I'm not saying you should always raise in this spot, but I prefer raising and winning the pot if our fold equity is high.

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Getting to showdown cheap shouldn't be very hard. Given a good flop like Q72r check/call, check turn and evaluate is a valid line to use. Also there's like 17 BB in the pot already, building a big pot if we flop a set isn't going to be hard at all.

[ChipStorm]

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I've said it before...I don't like reraising these sort of hands. They have huge showdown value and obv great set value, and we just take sooo much of that away by reraising.


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How you going to get to showdown cheap OOP? It's also hard to build a pot OOP when you flop a set. I'm not saying you should always raise in this spot, but I prefer raising and winning the pot if our fold equity is high.

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Getting to showdown cheap shouldn't be very hard. Given a good flop like Q72r check/call, check turn and evaluate is a valid line to use. Also there's like 17 BB in the pot already, building a big pot if we flop a set isn't going to be hard at all.

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I'm not sure I believe this but I've got a lot to learn on hands like this one.

Your call makes it $15 in the pot on the flop. Villain can easily make average size bets and get you all-in by the river. With what boards/villain types are you getting away if he takes the bet/bet/bet line? Or do you just think such a line unlikely given villain's range and your calls?

[CaptainNurple]

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I've said it before...I don't like reraising these sort of hands. They have huge showdown value and obv great set value, and we just take sooo much of that away by reraising.

I'd much rather reraise 67s or a suited ace than TT/99

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Maybe I'm missing something obvious dbitel, but would you mind explaining what you mean by "they have huge showdown value", or even just expand on everything you said above?

I understand the huge set value of hands like this is a multiway pot, but how does TT have huge showdown value? It seems like in a raised pot it'd only have medium showdown value at best unless you hit your set, since any A-J could have you beat.

Seems like everyone agrees with you, so I'm just trying to understand what I'm missing here.

Thanks.

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It kind of all depends how confortable you are with playing a marginal hand OOP and getting reads on your opponent. But if your opponent has 2 overs, he's going to only hit the flop 1 in 3 times and cbet most the time too. Now I'm confortable enough in my ability that I can take this TT to showdown when he's missed.

A normal line is to c/c flop and check turn, or something like that. Its actually not too hard to get to showdown really, and you'll obviously be ahead more often than not. Yeha, sometimes you let QJ or whatever outdraw you, but I think thats more than made up for by the value you get when they miss/the time you flop a set and the times you would've got yourself in a big mess vs JJ+ when you reraised preflop

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Makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation.

Obv. it's read-dependent, but in the above scenario, say then turn goes check/check and an overcard comes on the river. If you check and they bet, what's your typical thought process then? Call if the bet's below a certain range, etc?