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#1
01-23-2006, 03:59 AM
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timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
okay, I'm sitting at the very soft, loose-passive 1-2 NL game at the Orleans today, watching football. I've doubled my buy-in of $300 but that was hours ago. Now, I'm card dead. So I proceed to practice folding KJos to raises like a good boy. In fact, I've tightened up so much that the rest of the table is joking about it, saying things like "Hey, if he finally raises, I'm out!"
My stack is around $640...It's a friendly table, lots of joking around and good company. Until... This enebriated, 20-something "wigga" guy comes to the table, drops about $80 on the table and sternly warns us all that He Has Arrived and that he's about to bust all of us chumps. Then he goes to the bathroom. When he comes back, he dumps another pile of chips on the table, mostly greens with a few reds mixed in. Obviously over $500, certainly over the max of $300. He says he's buying in for $100. I calmly tell him and the dealer that if he's only going to buy in for $100 the gentleman should remove the other chips from the table, so everyone is clear on how much he has behind. Naturally, Mr. Wigga gets all belligerent and in my face, calling me names and saying I should only worry about my own stack, since he's about to take it. Well, I think this is pretty funny, but still insist he take the other chips off the table. The dealer is busy dealing the next hand and has inexplicably decided not to say anything. I finally pick up a hand and raise to $12 dollars, still arguing with the guy that he should have to remove anything above $300 from the table. "[censored] you Chump, I'm not going to remove anything. I'm all in." And he pushes all those chips forward. "Yeah, that's right. That's how I roll. So fold like a little bitch and you can shut your bitch-ass mouth." Everyone else naturally folds. I look at the dealer to see if he's going to say anything, but he's avoiding my eyes. Cool. I ask the idiot how much he's got and says, "More than you, Chump." I nod, agreeing, and call. The dealer deals out the cards. Mr. Wigga stands up and slams his hands face-up on the table when a J rivers a garbage board. He's got Ace-Jack. "Yeah, Beeeyatch....now shut your punk-ass up and go get some more money." I calmly flip over my Aces - I mean, really, what else could I have, right? His eyes grow wide again and he starts saying no no no over and over again, insisting he only bought in for $100. Immediately, I yell for the floor. The floor comes over, and the Dealer (suddenly all chatty) tells him the story exactly as it happened. The floor just wants to know one thing. When Mr. Wigga pushed all-in, did he push all his chips forward? Yes. Then nothing else matters. If the Gentleman wants to ignore the house rules of a $300 max buy-in, he should except the results if he loses. The dealer pushes me the pot, Mr. Wigga is incredulous and storms out. Alas, before I could come up with a fitting one-liner. Anyone have any thing that would've been appropriate? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] 
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#2
01-23-2006, 04:13 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
"Even I can see that this is a brag post!"
 I keed, I keed.
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#4
01-23-2006, 04:44 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
Dude, this his hilarious. One reason I dont play at the Orleans is the dealers, as a whole, aren't very good whatsoever. I've had more than my share of issues with them and ignoring things then telling the floors that they have NO IDEA what happened. WTf, its your game, run it!
But thats great, I would have paid about threefitty to watch this moron flip out.
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#6
01-23-2006, 04:54 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
Nice hand Dominic.
What comes to mind for me tho are these points. I like the fact the floor made him lose all that you had him covered for in one way. because he's going to be a problem child for the table and room as a whole in his state. Maybe it'll be a lesson for him. If he remembers. I dont like the fact that the dealer didnt do his/her job in protecting the table and therefore allowing only $100 to play. I like that the dealer stated everything correctly. I dont like that the floor allowed more than $100 to play, thereby protecting the game as a whole also. Reading between the lines, and I could be very wrong so take it with a grain of salt. Do I see this as a "floorman comes, sees the resulting winner of the hand, a friendly local" ruling? A ruling that would be different if the tabled cards were different? It just smells fishy to me. A totally unbiased ruling would have been... floorman states, "push $100 of his chips into the pot, award the pot to the winner deal that young man out." Floor calls security and says he's got a customer to 86 from the poker room. Security arrives qwickly and escorts him away from the poker room, possibly off the premesis depending on any further beligerance. Sure is nice to wake up with a hand in that spot though!!
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#7
01-23-2006, 05:25 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
[ QUOTE ]
Reading between the lines, and I could be very wrong so take it with a grain of salt. Do I see this as a "floorman comes, sees the resulting winner of the hand, a friendly local" ruling? A ruling that would be different if the tabled cards were different? It just smells fishy to me. [/ QUOTE ] I believe all of this palyers chips should play. The dealer did not make him remove the excess chips from play. He put the chips into the pot. The other player (OP) accepted the action that was offered. Once action has been offered and accepted you cannot allow the player to remoce the chips as he was expecting to win all of the OP's chips if he had won. I see this the same way as two player's being heads up and agreeing to prodice more money to bet more than they have in their stacks; that would be a violation of table stakes, but if it happens (Puggy lost a big pot once I know of after tellign the dealer to stay out of it) the bet is "booked."
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#8
01-23-2006, 05:37 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
What a great story! From a Karma/Justice standpoint, I love that he lost all his chips, and literally laughed out loud while reading the conclusion. :-)
That said: [ QUOTE ] A totally unbiased ruling would have been... floorman states, "push $100 of his chips into the pot, award the pot to the winner deal that young man out." Floor calls security and says he's got a customer to 86 from the poker room. Security arrives qwickly and escorts him away from the poker room, possibly off the premesis depending on any further beligerance. [/ QUOTE ] ...is a great point. Well said, bigfishhead. In any event, thanks for a great read. :-)
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#9
01-23-2006, 05:38 AM
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Re: timing is everything (interesting ruling, too)
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer is busy dealing the next hand and has inexplicably decided not to say anything. I finally pick up a hand and raise to $12 dollars, still arguing with the guy that he should have to remove anything above $300 from the table. [/ QUOTE ] It's always enormous fun when someone with attitude comes to a table talking smack and putting a giant bullseye on his/her forehead. They ALWAYS bust if they stay a while. Their only chance of survival is to snare a pot early and run. My last such instance was a moron coming to our NL1/2 table (max $200 buy-in) from a broken table with >$700 proclaiming "I'm a playa! I'm here to play! I turned a $38 buy-in into THIS! Those suckers on that other table actually let me buy in short for $38 and looky at what I done with it!"... he lasted about 60 minutes and left without a penny, losing $100 here, and $200 there, and $200 again, and $200 more. It's not just the dealers at The Orleans that fail to control the game as they should. It's pretty rare for a dealer to tell an incoming player that he has too many chips. Or to catch a player taking 'em off the table later. 90% of the time it requires a player at the table speaking up. Dunno if it's that the dealers really don't notice, or if they just prefer to never say a discouraging word unless forced to. But it is inexcusable for the dealer to not say something once the issue is brought up, and particularly when this yahoo pushed all-in the dealer needed to clarify how much was being pushed before any further action was allowed. But... I agree the guy was committed for at least $300, not $100. I just don't see that you can put chips on the table, refuse to remove them, and then say they are not in play when the result turns out poorly for you. The ONLY question is whether >$300 was in play. That I dunno. I don't disagree with the ruling, but I'm not sure it was "right". So what are the gaming legalities of the max buy-in on the placards? If a table has a stated max buy-in, do gaming regulations require they be followed? I know the stated rake on the placard cannot be exceeded. I have seen the max buy-in be intentionally ignored by general consensus of the players at the table when someone sat with too much and the dealer actually asked if anybody objected and nobody did. Just dunno if that's kosher.
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