Shaniac Min-Check-Raises Me

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

We hardly beat any hands here. Do you think he raises with 22-44? We beat 77 and 88, and lose to 10-10 through AA,66,55,A5s,65s,etc.

I dont hate a flop fold as the turn card is probably going to be more of a disaster and I doubt hes checking it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Shane saw us fold to a min c/r before do you think he's going to do it with a hand that buries us? I think he's more likely to c/c or lead.

I think Shane can easily do this with 2 overs.

I could be wrong, I often am.

Regards,
Woodguy

[NoahSD]

I agree that this is between calling and folding. Dunno which is correct though.

Lol.. i've been so helpful in this thread.

[adanthar]

fact: he is pushing the turn (unless it is really terrible for his hand, like an ace or five hits and he has 76 or something)

fact: you are more often behind than ahead

fact: shoving now makes him fold jacks sometimes

if you thought > 5 seconds, fold, otherwise shove

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

fact: he is pushing the turn (unless it is really terrible for his hand, like an ace or five hits and he has 76 or something)

fact: you are more often behind than ahead

fact: shoving now makes him fold jacks sometimes

if you thought > 5 seconds, fold, otherwise shove

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree that you are behind here more than ahead, and that he folds many hands you are behind often enough to make a push profitable, maybe TT.....

Regards,
Woodguy

[adanthar]

look at the stacks again...this is one of two, maybe 3 things.

1)small/medium pair or 6 looking for info, right on the edge of being able to fold to a 3 bet (this is a fairly decent, but not huge part of his range, also, JJ is the same hand as 22 here if he plays it this way)
2)total bluff which may have an over or two (also small, may be less than I think because you are c-betting into 2 people/showing strength)
3)something that wants a call

if you think you don't have FE over JJ here (you do, though) you can fold right now and save half a stack.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
1)small/medium pair or 6 looking for info, right on the edge of being able to fold to a 3 bet (this is a fairly decent, but not huge part of his range, also, JJ is the same hand as 22 here if he plays it this way)
2)total bluff which may have an over or two (also small, may be less than I think because you are c-betting into 2 people/showing strength)
3)something that wants a call

if you think you don't have FE over JJ here (you do, though) you can fold right now and save half a stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that if we think we are behind, just fold. Trying to fold a better hand in a big pot online is usually bad, even against a good thinking player, but I will concede some FE here.

#1 &#2 suggest calling the flop raise and getting in on turn. Since he is first to act on the turn and is now in control of the hand, raising here with best hand is no good.

It could be #3, but I think you are ahead of the range and really need him to bet again to maximize the hand.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Jeppi]

First inpression: I think you are ahead, but I am not sure you are folding better hands.

this is a pretty good flop for you. The push folds worst hands like 76s that you won't mind in. It also folds overs wich in my opinion is not that bad.

The problem is that he is likely to call with hands that beat you and nothing else.

Your push is not representing AA or KK. The flop is very good for those hands, they are way ahead of everything except trips or a FH. So if you push, they loose a lot of value.

ooops, now I look at the size of your stack compare to the pot. You have to raise and commit yourself, so you may have to go broke here. And yes, Js and Ts will have a hard time to call this(QQ+ is now back in your range). IMO TT-JJ are unlikely as i guess he would have raised more with those to safely fold to a 3-bet all in.

From the result it looks like he took a stab. This is a great spot for him to do so as he commits 18000 to win 26000 on a flop you likely missed and then forces you to fold or push so you will be the one risking your stack not him.

Your half pot sized bet followed by the 3-bet all in worked very well in that hand and extract the most value without going to the turn.

[Jeppi]

[ QUOTE ]

if you thought > 5 seconds, fold, otherwise shove

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that because it shows strenght? Or are you just saying if you overthink it you'll find a fold?

Here I think regardeless of your holding, the nuts or a marginal hand, you need some time to decide your line. Rushing your chips in the middle in that hand vs that player is not an indication of more strenght or weakness. And this is not giving you the opportunity to take the most appropriate line.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Here I think regardeless of your holding, the nuts or a marginal hand, you need some time to decide your line. Rushing your chips in the middle in that hand vs that player is not an indication of more strenght or weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is really, really wrong. I guess I should qualify that with a 'maybe not vs. that particular player' in case it's not true vs. exactly Shaniac. it probably is, though, as it is definitely wrong vs. 99.999% of all poker players including almost everybody in that skill range.

[sholler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here I think regardeless of your holding, the nuts or a marginal hand, you need some time to decide your line. Rushing your chips in the middle in that hand vs that player is not an indication of more strenght or weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is really, really wrong. I guess I should qualify that with a 'maybe not vs. that particular player' in case it's not true vs. exactly Shaniac. it probably is, though, as it is definitely wrong vs. 99.999% of all poker players including almost everybody in that skill range.

[/ QUOTE ]
Adanthar this is OT but I always wanted to ask you in PITR, who is that in your avatar?