Would you bet the flop here?

HoneyBadger · #1 06-26-2006, 05:24 PM

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 5 folds, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB.

Wondering if my flop check was correct here. I think so; opinions?

SuitedDucks · #2 06-26-2006, 05:28 PM

why wouldnt you bet the flop?? i dont understand.

TripleH68 · #3 06-26-2006, 05:29 PM

Why do you think your flop check was correct?

Haupt_234 · #4 06-26-2006, 05:33 PM

There is a huge flaw in your thinking.

Why would you 3bet AK preflop and then check that flop last to act? Were you only betting if you flopped a straight or 2 pair?

Please explain...

Haupt_234

HoneyBadger · #5 06-26-2006, 05:36 PM

Because everyone would likely just call; and right so with over 1:12 odds. The turn would then probably be checked to me, and if I bet out again people still get about 1:10 odds to correctly pursue any miracle they might hope for (or a flush). Now if I check, someone is likely to bet out on the turn, giving me the chance to raise a smaller pot. Now they face a 2BB bet on a 7BB pot, making a call incorrect in many cases. Also, I might actually make more money with a turn raise, or at least almost the same. I'm just not sure if this principle completely applies here.

Haupt_234 · #6 06-26-2006, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone would likely just call; and right so with over 1:12 odds. The turn would then probably be checked to me, and if I bet out again people still get about 1:10 odds to correctly pursue any miracle they might hope for (or a flush). Now if I check, someone is likely to bet out on the turn, giving me the chance to raise a smaller pot. Now they face a 2BB bet on a 7BB pot, making a call incorrect in many cases. Also, I might actually make more money with a turn raise, or at least almost the same. I'm just not sure if this principle completely applies here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a feeling you were going to say this exact line of thinking, which is incredibly wrong. You are betting for value, there is no need to protect when you have the best hand.

I really don't want to get too deep into why you should bet this flop... if you aren't, just read SSHE. Your thinking is way far out there.

Also, do you think everyone is drawing? Why can't anyone call down with a weaker hand?

Haupt_234

HoneyBadger · #7 06-26-2006, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I had a feeling you were going to say this exact line of thinking, which is incredibly wrong. You are betting for value, there is no need to protect when you have the best hand.

I really don't want to get too deep into why you should bet this flop... if you aren't, just read SSHE. Your thinking is way far out there.

Also, do you think everyone is drawing? Why can't anyone call down with a weaker hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yah I read it... that's why I did this. Otherwise I'd figure it to be an easy bet... fancy play syndrome? The flush draw scared me, and I just planned to raise the turn if a spade did not show, otherwise just call to a showdown and possible redraw. (or bet if noone did) Hmm yeah there was nothing to protect I guess, and I couldn't ever make a flush draw fold anyhow. Even an A-rag that hit was no problem.

SixForty · #8 06-26-2006, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone would likely just call; and right so with over 1:12 odds. The turn would then probably be checked to me, and if I bet out again people still get about 1:10 odds to correctly pursue any miracle they might hope for (or a flush). Now if I check, someone is likely to bet out on the turn, giving me the chance to raise a smaller pot. Now they face a 2BB bet on a 7BB pot, making a call incorrect in many cases. Also, I might actually make more money with a turn raise, or at least almost the same. I'm just not sure if this principle completely applies here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that all you are taking into consideration is trying to protect your hand. This is good, and you want to think about this very often.

However, you have a strong made hand here. This is a case where getting value out of your hand is more important than trying to find some slick way of protecting it. This is a place where value betting is way more important than protection.

You're equity here is way too big to pass up on a chance to get bets in.

Haupt_234 · #9 06-26-2006, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yah I read it... that's why I did this. Otherwise I'd figure it to be an easy bet... fancy play syndrome?

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't have anything to do with fancy; it's just plain bad.

Reread SSHE.

Haupt_234

HoneyBadger · #10 06-26-2006, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't have anything to do with fancy; it's just plain bad.

Reread SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]
I won't get too deep into why it is fancy play syndrome [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Anyway, I do see the point. Forgo pushing small edges if it allows you to protect your hand better. There was little need to protect my hand now, and (so) it was not a small edge so it should have been pushed. The tiny bit of deception it gained me cost too much, so prolly not worth it. And I'd prolly win more by betting the flop, tho that depends on the situation and hands. I might actually have made more money with the check (as everyone folded and I was called down by 99. If we assume the others would've folded to a flop bet I made 1 SB more. Also, the CO might have called 1 BB only to be raised. So moneywise I don't think I suffered much in this particular case. But I see the point now; thanks).