The Myth of the Resume Gap

[Fishy McDonk]

[ QUOTE ]
Poor recruiters will ignore your resume based on Poker being a scary word
Good recruiters, or those that are poker fiends, will say - "Check out this poker guy - let's meet him tomorrow"


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I will have to defer to your expertise, but my experience with recruiters is that they will send you on interviews where you have the slimmest of chances. I wouldn't get my hopes up because a recruiter is finding me interviews to send on.

I don't think it matters much if a recruiter is a poker fiend.(What % of them are, anyway). What matters is how the managers making the hiring decision perceive gamblers. If all of them are poker fiends (manager, mananger's manager and whoever else sees him in his 1st and 2nd interview) then maybe he gets a job offer. Being entry level, he certainly doesn't fit in the 10% that every employer is competing for. Even less so with a questionable resume.

As far as lying goes, the way I see it, employers sometimes can't handle the truth. All resumes are exagerated. I assume that most everyone that is competing for the job against me is exagerating or lying. The former director of FEMA lied on his resume and look how far he went before it was discovered. (Not until after Katrina). I would not be over-paranoid about that for an entry level job.

I don't believe everyone knows someone who plays poker. Because of the social circles we are in, we THINK everyone plays or knows someone who plays. Every TV segment I have seen about online gambling on the networks cast it in a negative light. Just because WE watch WSOP and WPT doesn't mean everyone does. I believe only a tiny fraction of americans watch these shows.

One doesn't have to deny he plays or has ever played poker or written a poker article. It could be viewed as a hobby. To bring it front and center when job hunting, I believe, is a mistake.

[dustyn]

[ QUOTE ]
AWFUL to mention that you were a pro-player in your resume. smart bosses will think you are a degenerate, or went broke.

extend last job, or say you had an Ebay business or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you "extend" your last job, you won't even pass a normal employment verification that virtually every employer does, much less a "standard" background check. This is a ticket to getting fired or your offer withdrawn.

[kiwi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poor recruiters will ignore your resume based on Poker being a scary word
Good recruiters, or those that are poker fiends, will say - "Check out this poker guy - let's meet him tomorrow"


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I will have to defer to your expertise, but my experience with recruiters is that they will send you on interviews where you have the slimmest of chances. I wouldn't get my hopes up because a recruiter is finding me interviews to send on.

I don't think it matters much if a recruiter is a poker fiend.(What % of them are, anyway). What matters is how the managers making the hiring decision perceive gamblers. If all of them are poker fiends (manager, mananger's manager and whoever else sees him in his 1st and 2nd interview) then maybe he gets a job offer. Being entry level, he certainly doesn't fit in the 10% that every employer is competing for. Even less so with a questionable resume.

As far as lying goes, the way I see it, employers sometimes can't handle the truth. All resumes are exagerated. I assume that most everyone that is competing for the job against me is exagerating or lying. The former director of FEMA lied on his resume and look how far he went before it was discovered. (Not until after Katrina). I would not be over-paranoid about that for an entry level job.

I don't believe everyone knows someone who plays poker. Because of the social circles we are in, we THINK everyone plays or knows someone who plays. Every TV segment I have seen about online gambling on the networks cast it in a negative light. Just because WE watch WSOP and WPT doesn't mean everyone does. I believe only a tiny fraction of americans watch these shows.

One doesn't have to deny he plays or has ever played poker or written a poker article. It could be viewed as a hobby. To bring it front and center when job hunting, I believe, is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely, I am a Kiwi who played his first hand of poker (EVER) 3 months ago, and has never seen it on TV. I threw in the poker fiend because here it would be quite unusual. Seems a bit glib when quoted like that, I can see.

There are many kinds of recruiters - smart candidates align themselves with smart recruiters who have great clients. I personally avoid the "freechip tables" of the recruitment industry. They are probably the bottom feeders tho whom you refer.

The 10% I refer to is found from grad level to CEO - again it is innate ability rather than purely experience which stands out.

As far as lying on a resume goes, my experience is it is a 10% gain, 90 loss scenario. The people I get excited about don't NEED to lie on their resume - and I don't think OP should, unless he is looking for a mundane role. He played Poker, and should seek an environment to work that at least can accept that - ie they should be compatible. You are very correct when saying not to assume our burning passion is even relevant to others

Interesting though and I see your perspective - I guess there are subleties to quality recruiting/job seeking as there are to Poker - you probably get frustrated when someone with only homegame experience holds forth on Advanced POker Techniques [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

(ps will learn to quote/post/quote/post soon!!)

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AWFUL to mention that you were a pro-player in your resume. smart bosses will think you are a degenerate, or went broke.

extend last job, or say you had an Ebay business or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you "extend" your last job, you won't even pass a normal employment verification that virtually every employer does, much less a "standard" background check. This is a ticket to getting fired or your offer withdrawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

when i suggested extending the last job, i assumed that the past employer would cover. that's the reason i suggested the ebay thing, in case it was not practical.

you guys can go back and forth all you want, i will NEVER be convinced that admitting to being a former poker player re-entering the job field will do anything but blow your opportunity.

[CrayZee]

Resumes and job interviews are lie/embellishment-fests anyway. I wouldn't bother putting the poker stuff on there unless you're trying to get some sort of finance job or something. It's probably okay to put it in the "hobbies/interests" section. You have to remember that some people are opposed to gambling.

Those that are the best interviewers tend to get jobs pretty well. I wouldn't put out-right lies on a resume (i.e. checkable college education), but benign ones that pass under the radar and look good is what everyone seems to do.

My fav interview question, I heard last night at table next to me in Starbucks, is: "How much notice would give us in advance, if you were to quit?" My answer would be: "I quit whenever the F I wanna quit." I wonder why I never get hired. What the hell do you think everyone is going to say?

I think the harder places to get a job is when they actually test your critical skills, etc. (i.e., Microsoft). That way the BS factor doesn't count as much. If you're a bad test-taker, which some people are, then you're screwed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[grinin]

great posts Kiwi
thanks for the insight

[DING-DONG YO]

I saw the title of this post and got real ready to flame the OP. Then I read the post.

Just some background, I run a good sized department in a large company and I hire people all the time.

A gap in a resume is a deal breaker for me. Period. But I define a gap in a resume as precisely that. A gap in time in your work experience that is not explained.

What the OP did was present his poker playing as a profession and he did a tremendous job of it (the presentation). He didn't leave the 15 months blank or lie about it (a fire on the spot situation, if I find out someone lied about their 15 months after that fact). Lieing about that only sets you up for problems later and when the lie is discovered, the fact that you lied about being a poker player is going to make you look like a unemployed, lazy, degenerate gambler to the vast majority of non-poker players.

I guess the lesson is that presentation is everything. A well written resume and cover letter go a long way towards getting people to take a chance on someone willing to admit they were a pro gambler for over a year.

I'm not surprised the OP has gotten three interviews and he'll have a position soon if he interviews as well as he writes. Written and oral presentation skills can get you a lot further than you think.

For all you pros out there that may have to re-enter the traditional workforce at some point, the OP is your poster boy. Take some resume writing and interview classes also.

And OP, I would've given you an interview based on your resume and cover letter just out of curiousity if nothing else. But hey, a foot in the door is a foot in the door.

And forget IT, go get a sales job. You sound suited for it.

[dogmeat]

The Resume' gap is not a myth. A gap of 15 months does present a problem for an interviewer - honest.

Now in the OP's situation he does present a glorified view of his time playing poker - BFD (and I play as a pro) - as a prospective employer this is not a positive unless I am hiring a position that requires a lot of fast-thinking BS. In the corporate world, this may actually be an asset, but not on a resume'.

I'm not offering advice, nor saying there is a better solution, just saying the gap is a problem, and saying you were a poker player is a negative.

FWIW, I've interviewed and hired a lot of people (>1000). I've also advised managers about candidates, and trust me, a gap or a gap with a "day-trader" or "independent stock analyst" or "poker player" hurts more than it helps.

I'd much rather see a "self-employed" notation that involved even a tiny web-site company, because that I can check on - and assume the candidate has some practical experience in other area's of business than the position they are probably applying for (financial and long term plannning, marketing, promotions, etc.). If I see that, I can ask the old open-ended questions and find out whether this is truely the case or not.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Eratosthenes]

[ QUOTE ]
The Resume' gap is not a myth. A gap of 15 months does present a problem for an interviewer - honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I saw a gap on a resume, I wanted it explained. If the explanation wasn't a good one, no offer. Playing pro poker for 15 months is a negative compared to working in the industry and making lots of money for your employer. But guess what: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT! So what are you going to do?

My advice is: tell the truth, put it in the best possible light, say why that experience allowed you to grow and made you an even more valuable employee. People will respect you for that.

A lot of posters to this thread have the idea that hiring managers are a pretty dumb bunch. Some are; I suspect most are above average. The guys that you should want to work for are the ones that are not going to let a brief (15 months is nothing--15 years would be a different matter) detour into pro poker prevent them from hiring the best candidate. Those are also they guys that are not going to be fooled by deception.

One extra thing that a thinking interviewer would ask for from a poker player would be a credit check (this may be part of a standard background check). If you have lots of credit problems then you may actually have a gambling problem and be a poor candidate. If your credit is good, that's a plus. As a complete aside, I would ask you if you posted to any poker forums and what your handle was on those forums--you better be making good posts.

Lastly, the posters who suggest lying on your resume are giving horrible advice. This is the 21st century--you leave a data trail. If you told me that you had an Ebay business for that 15 months, I ask you one question: what's your handle? (and you better have good feedback.) Unless you are an unusually good liar and can construct a good myth for that 15 months, you are likely to get caught. That will be unpleasent. You should know that interviewers will ask you the same questions, but in different ways, and then compare answers.

In my last job we had a very organized interview process. Each interviewer had a few questions that he had to work in to the interview (except me, I was the boss and I talked about anything I wanted to). If you were interviewing with us, 2-4 of the interviewers would be asking you about that gap. If you were caught in a lie during an on-site interview with me, you would be escorted off the premises by a security guard who would tell read you a card telling you not to come back and that you would be prosecuted for trespassing if you did. If you were sent by a recruiter, he will get an earfull and he will not be happy when we're finished. We would also not reimburse you for travel expenses.

[dustyn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Resume' gap is not a myth. A gap of 15 months does present a problem for an interviewer - honest.

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of posters to this thread have the idea that hiring managers are a pretty dumb bunch. Some are; I suspect most are above average. The guys that you should want to work for are the ones that are not going to let a brief (15 months is nothing--15 years would be a different matter) detour into pro poker prevent them from hiring the best candidate. Those are also they guys that are not going to be fooled by deception.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I think your entire post is excellent, this is especially good advice. Most of the crappy hiring managers that would be so vain as to completely exclude someone for playing professional poker for 15 months are probably not worth working for anyway. If their beliefs are that messed up about poker, what is it going to be like trying to get other business conducted with said boss? There is a huge gap in good companies and bad companies on how they conduct hiring and business. Finding a job is ultimately about a good fit, about a quality hire for both the company and candidate, not about quantity of interviews of job leads/offers. That's why being honest is so essential - you are much more likely to end up in a position that's a mutually good fit. The job market is hot right now, just "finding a job" is not hard, so focus on making a quality career decision. If this was 2001-02, then things would be different, but there's a huge shortage of strong candidates out there at the moment.