The Myth of the Resume Gap

[dustyn]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly I'm not sure why everyone is jumping all over Fishy here. If you think that there are not a certain percentage of HR/Managers who would hesitate to hire someone with Poker on their resume you're mistaken. I guarantee you there are. I'm not saying there aren't some that would prefer to see it opposed to a gap. There very well may be.

[ QUOTE ]
You should actually listen to people like 2nd Goat, Bisonbison, and Death Valley, all of whom have had solid job opportunities after playing professionally.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did they include it on the resume? Do I not count in that group? I didn't include it.

[ QUOTE ]
Poker was not a detractor for any of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody said you can never get back to work in your field after playing poker as a sole means of income for a certain period. But that doesn't mean it isn't/wasn't a detractor to some extent.

I think if you do decide to include it 2nd Goat did a nice job with the details and trying to relate it to the type of position he's looking for. It was an excellent post as an example of how to do that if you so choose. But I'm not sure just leaving a gap would be worse. And no...leaving poker out of your resume is not lying or unethical (to those who feel otherwise). Lying in the interview if asked what you did for income in that period is clearly a different story. But I don't believe anyone was advocating that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So how do you explain an 18 month gap? What do you say? And if you're making mad money playing poker and a Kroll background check reveals a monster purchase? Or if you say you're "travelling" and a Kroll background check puts you on a traffic violation or something? Or if you have published an article talking about poker and it gives a tidbit about your poker habits? How are you going to explain your income (because these companies will ask you about your income during your gap and you better have good answers to back it up). All of these things are very likely to happen. And your candidacy is toast if any of these situations come up and are inconsistent with your background interview.

Yes, some people will not hire you because of poker. Yes, some opportunities you will not be able to get. Yes, some opportunities will be available to you because of poker playing that you would otherwise not have access to. Yes, you face a significant risk of being "found out" about your lies to explain your resume gap. Yes, you will get fired if people found out you lied about your resume during any point of your employment tenure. Yes, it's extremely unethical to lie about an 18 month gap on your resume (and an employer is going to be VERY curious about what you were doing for a year and a half, and if they conduct background checks, they will most definitely want to focus on that).

Some people choose to tell the truth. Some people choose to lie about it. Both have their pros and cons.

[Girchuck]

The income part is at least very simple.
Any fish could luck out to place high in a major tournament, collect a prize never to play again.
Or win a lottery prize.
The income does not make you into a poker pro.

[dustyn]

[ QUOTE ]
The income part is at least very simple.
Any fish could luck out to place high in a major tournament, collect a prize never to play again.
Or win a lottery prize.
The income does not make you into a poker pro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I'm not saying you couldn't make up more stuff to get around the background check, and that you'll definitely get caught, or anything like that. However, my point is mainly to illustrate the risk in making stuff up on your resume, and the tools that are available to employers to rat out candidates who lie about their work history (and lots do).

[chief444]

What are you talking about? I never said it's OK to lie about playing. I just said it may be better if it's not included on the resume. Clearly there is a big difference. For one it's not actually on file for all to see that you played poker for a living...which some people responsible for hiring would feel better about. For another you explain the situation in the 2nd part of the job search process...the interview. The point of the resume is to get the interview.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why everyone is jumping all over Fishy here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was in the way he (initially) explained OP's chances. To me, it read like he thought there was no chance to get a job offer if he let on he was a pro, and then went over the top saying people generally equate poker pros to drug dealers and prostitutes.

Definitely merit to some of the ideas that Fishy was trying to get across about possible implications and perceptions, but the style he presented them in was exaggerated and maybe a little incendiary. He also gave one piece of advice that was really bad when he suggested it would be better to lie than to disclose a poker career on your resume.

Chief, I think you expressed a pretty good look at the plusses and minuses. The insight from the inside that you gave is pretty valuable for pros/potential pros to consider.

[BradleyT]

After programming for a few years right after college, I took over a year off and did nothing but get high.

The gap was never a big deal in any interviews, I just said I travelled.

[dustyn]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about? I never said it's OK to lie about playing. I just said it may be better if it's not included on the resume. Clearly there is a big difference. For one it's not actually on file for all to see that you played poker for a living...which some people responsible for hiring would feel better about. For another you explain the situation in the 2nd part of the job search process...the interview. The point of the resume is to get the interview.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fair. My apologies for jumping on you specifically. However, in my own defense, there have been numerous "mention poker on an interview?" threads where several posters have advocated lying, and it's important for people to know about the resources employers have for dealing with this kind of thing.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it was in the way he (initially) explained OP's chances. To me, it read like he thought there was no chance to get a job offer if he let on he was a pro, and then went over the top saying people generally equate poker pros to drug dealers and prostitutes.

Definitely merit to some of the ideas that Fishy was trying to get across about possible implications and perceptions, but the style he presented them in was exaggerated and maybe a little incendiary. He also gave one piece of advice that was really bad when he suggested it would be better to lie than to disclose a poker career on your resume.


[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. And I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Chief, I think you expressed a pretty good look at the plusses and minuses. The insight from the inside that you gave is pretty valuable for pros/potential pros to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. And FWIW I did actually discuss the poker in my interview for the position I start very soon. I also told them when asked what I do outside of work that I like to go out for a beer or two and watch a game. Most people don't mind because they've played a few home games with friends, watched poker on TV, and like to go out for a drink and catch a game themselves. But they were in no way surprised or upset that poker wasn't included on my resume.

[Fishy McDonk]

I will give some estimates here:

400 million Americans

approx 150 - 200 million in the labor market

generous off the cuff estimate: 1 million who play poker

You would probably be surprised to know what that other 99 to 99.5% on non-poker players think about us. Some skeptical, most negatively, some very negatively. Very few favorably. We are, after all, gamblers, no matter what we think of ourselves. You won't have time in an interview to convince even someone with an open mind that poker is not really "gambling", let alone someone with pre-conceived notions. It is a very steep uphill battle. Even someone with an open mind may still be deterred by the CYA syndrome.

I wouldn't advise anyone who has scruples to lie on a resume. But for those who don't have scruples, your chances of getting a job is much better if you lie and make them find out you're lying than it is if you put something negative right out there.

Finding a job is a numbers game. There will be a certain % who will check you out and won't hire you because you lied and a certain % who won't bother with a rigorous investigation.

If you have something negative on the resume, it makes it easy for them to screen you out and you will have fewer opportunities.

That's just reality.

[chief444]

Understood and agreed. My personal feeling is that if you find yourself uncomfortable or thinking of being in any way dishonest during an interview it's probably not a good position for you anyway. I certainly wouldn't want to work with people who I feel would have a problem or condescending attitude with who I am outside of work.