bluffraising a limper on 3rd

[Vike]

I would not recommend bluff raising a limper with trash hands in the Foxwoods $75-$150 game, simply because the immediate odds they get makes it correct to call your raise. It's a high ante game ($15 ante, $25 forced bet) so after you raise the pot will be (assuming full game):

(ante = 8 * $15 = $120) + (bring in and limper = 2 * $25 = $50) + (your raise = $75) = $245

Assuming the bring-in folds that means the limper gets $245:$50 odds, almost 5-1 and is correct to call. And they usually will, meaning you will frequently get yourself in trouble bluff raising with just a high card. You'll need something a little stronger than just a high card.

Now with hands like AKT, or a high 3-flush it's OK, since most of the time you'll be at least close to even money to win, so with the dead money it's actually correct to isolate a limper especially if you have some control over the player.

There are some players who are soft and a lot of times like to see 4th and 5th and will give it up immediately on 5th if they don't improve regardless of what you catch. Against them you can raise more freely, but against most I would not recommend it.

[TStoneMBD]

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I WILL sometimes raise with an ace trash hand on a steal

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that quote implied to me that you dont steal enough but i guess its just miscommunication.

[Jeffage]

Yup. The sometimes I don't do it refers to poor position - if I'm in mid late and the situation looks favorable, of course I raise. I rarely play games where an outright steal from EP is correct. Also, your folding ace garbage from EP with an ace up with train your opponents to fold more when you're outright stealing from mid/late. Getting a rep for constant stealing will cause you to run into problems at some point.

Jeff

[Andy B]

I'll read the rest of this thread later, but it's relatively uncommon for someone to limp in and fold to a completion. Bad players aren't going to fold, and good players aren't likely to have a crappy pair. With a three-flush, they're probably correct to call for the rest of the bet. If they hit a four-flush, they become the favorite. If they pair up, they're not far behind. If they blank off, they can get away from the hand pretty quickly.

Do you play limit hold'em? When someone limps in, do you bluff raise? I hope not, because it's very rare for someone to fold when they've already put one bet in.

[TStoneMBD]

yes im a limit holdem specialist. i isolation raise limpers all the time with whatever but never expect to take down the pot preflop, but to take down the pot on the flop or turn. the situation is different in stud than holdem because a completion is 3-4 times the initial bringin. its not like limit where they call 20 and call another 20. here they call 5 and have to call another 15. so its a different scenario. the scenario is closer to nl than limit where you can isolation raise a limper for 4xBB on a bluff which is something ill frequently do when im playing nl. however, if you say people rarely ever limp in and fold to a raise i trust you because i have no first hand experience with stud. the only reason why i thought limping in and folding to a raise would be common is because s4ap advises doing this, even with medium pairs! i found this advice to be really strange and mediocre which is why i posted about it here because if its correct to limp with medium pairs and fold to raises, its correct to bluffraise probable medium pairs by people who follow the "correct" advice that the book offers.

[mmcd]

In the game your looking to play in, there's probably going to be more than 1 limper, and those guys generally don't like to fold. I haven't played a ton of hours in the FW game, but I've never seen anyone limp/fold on 3rd unless multiple raises went in behind them.