"I have a big hand and pot odds. I fold"

[adanthar]

Hand 1:

'Dise 30r, 100/200 just after the rebuy. I have 2600 chips because I suck, find aces in MP and make it 600. Both blinds call. I don't have a read on either, but if they're typical 30r players, the letter "D" is tattooed on their heads.

The flop is JJ6. Both blinds check and I check with a PSB left (let's not talk about this street, it's relatively standard.)

The turn is a J, and a very interesting thing happens; SB leads 400 into the 1800 pot and BB calls. I decide my hand probably sucks and overcall, waiting for the river.

The river is a Q. SB checks. BB now bets some random large number of chips. I have 1600 behind and will win 4200 when I am good, but don't feel like bothering and muck anyway.

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Hand 2:

Level 1, Stars 150. I have JJ and raise after a limper or two. The last one calls.

The flop is something like 952, 2 spades. Check, I bet 2/3 pot, he calls.

The turn is a 2. He checks, I decide that since I should probably fold to a CR I can only bet 3/5 pot or so, he thinks forever and calls. At this point I have 1K, he has less and the pot is a little over a thousand.

The river is some low spade. He takes 6-7 seconds and bets 300. After a while, I talk myself into calling for 4.x:1 and lose.

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Most of you know when to bet relatively well. Most of you are also pot odds oriented to the point where every hand you lose a lot of chips on is a #2 and not a #1. Pot odds are a great thing, except when they aren't.

[Rickyroodido]

Strong fold on hand one. Im not sure if its good... I would probably call because I find it hard to believe that somebody is willing to announce that he has a "J", but I guess he is playing his cards. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I cant se anything els then a river call on hand two. without a read the cheap price might aswell be a gutsi valuebet or something els from a hand that we beat.

[mikeJ]

Hand 1: I suppose only a J, Q, or bluff bet the river. If your "D" comment implies they are donkeys then I could see someone betting something like QK on the turn and betting it on the river. (Won't you win 4600 if your AA is best?) I call because of the donk factor.

Hand 2: I call river in your 2nd hand to. Villain could very well be blocking w/ a one pair hand that you beat.

[TightIsRight]

In the first hand, I would pretty much never fold in this spot (i.e., this tourney against donkeys). I think the fact that they are donks is a stronger argument for your hand being good than otherwise.

Then again, you are 10 times the player I am and I'm drunk, so I'll cede to your superiority (as well as the knowledge that you probably wouldn't have posted this hand unless you were right...)

[tubasteve]

Donkeys still flop trips.

[TightIsRight]

They turn quads too...

[mikeJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Donkeys still flop trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they never do.

[TightIsRight]

...but my point is, a donkey would be more apt to fall in love with a smaller fullhouse.

[NoahSD]

(Obligatory note: I play lower stakes than this. Your donkeys and my donkeys don't always act the same.)

Hand 1:

I agree that a J is the only hand that is being represented. However, there are many hands that the donkey could have played a bit differently here. I think 77-TT are pretty common. Other possibilities include Q6, A6, K6, 22-55. Occasionally this is even air.

One thing that I've noticed about bad players is that, while I am absolutely terrified of overcallers on boards like this, they tend to expect it and ignore it. Therefore, when the original bettor checks, I think many donkeys decide that no strong hands are out.

Another thing about bad players is that they tend to play horribly on boards like this one.

I'll think about hand 2.

[Roman]

wow how can you possibly justify folding hand 1??

Hand 2 is close, I might crycall also, even though I have layed overpairs down in this spot vs the right opponents.