Calling allins with low PP ITM

[oyvindgee]

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600
3 players

Stack sizes:
Button: t7052
Hero: t7205
BB: t5743

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Button raises all-in t7052</font>

This is a call just about every time, right? I suppose it's very basic so I found out I couldn't play another SnG without knowing.

[fatmanonguitar]

No it ain't.

[AnthonyV]

whoa. do not call here. it is likely that the absolute best you are here is a coinflip. since button has almost the exact same stack as you, this would not be advisable. no need to flip coins for one's tournament life when you still have 12xBBs.

[AliasMrJones]

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This is a call just about every time, right?

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Ummm, no. If he is pushing with 22+,A2+,K2+,Q9o+,Q5s+,JTo,J8s+,T9s it is a nuetral call. If he's pushing anything less than top 40%, it's negative. If he is pushing with top 20%, 33+,A4o+,A2s+,KJo+,KTs+, it is -1%. So it depends on how aggressively he's been pushing.

[nhsir]

This is such a fundamentally easy fold that you need to make sure you understand the concept fully before going any further.

When you call here you are either going to be a small favorite or a huge underdog. You have very little invested in this pot and are getting terrible pot odds.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
whoa. do not call here. it is likely that the absolute best you are here is a coinflip. since button has almost the exact same stack as you, this would not be advisable. no need to flip coins for one's tournament life when you still have 12xBBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This, and the other posts here are correct. This is a very important sort of thing to understand.

The two exercizes which should follow are:

When putting your opponent on a standardish range of pushing hands, what hands should you call with, including what minimum pocket pair?

How does this calling range change with the same stacks but escalating blinds? And for novelty, at what blinds level would calling here with 44 be profitable (note that it is likely htat as the blinds increase you will also have to adjust your standard raising ranges for your opponents.

c

ps: the exercise, which is good to do by hand, is doable with sngpt, probably in incredibly deep detail, in about 2 hours, and is easilly worth at least 10 times the cost of the program all by itself, to a player who plays a fair deal. Alternatively, several people have posted modeling results about push call ranges for different stack depths, and an understanding of karlson-sklansky by itself, while good, isn't quite enough to be perfect

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoa. do not call here. it is likely that the absolute best you are here is a coinflip. since button has almost the exact same stack as you, this would not be advisable. no need to flip coins for one's tournament life when you still have 12xBBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This, and the other posts here are correct. This is a very important sort of thing to understand.

The two exercizes which should follow are:

When putting your opponent on a standardish range of pushing hands, what hands should you call with, including what minimum pocket pair?

How does this calling range change with the same stacks but escalating blinds? And for novelty, at what blinds level would calling here with 44 be profitable (note that it is likely htat as the blinds increase you will also have to adjust your standard raising ranges for your opponents.

c

ps: the exercise, which is good to do by hand, is doable with sngpt, probably in incredibly deep detail, in about 2 hours, and is easilly worth at least 10 times the cost of the program all by itself, to a player who plays a fair deal. Alternatively, several people have posted modeling results about push call ranges for different stack depths, and an understanding of karlson-sklansky by itself, while good, isn't quite enough to be perfect

[/ QUOTE ]

[oyvindgee]

Okay.. I understand that it's gonna be a coinflip. I figured it was a call since I will be a big favourite for first if I win. I don't think he was pushing more than 40% here so the call was maybe okay anyway, I see that SnGPT is something I'll definetely need to purchase.

[fatmanonguitar]

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Okay.. I understand that it's gonna be a coinflip or I'm a huge underdog .

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[oyvindgee]

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Okay.. I understand that it's gonna be a coinflip or I'm a huge underdog .

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FYP

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Yeah, I know that too, but since his range includes a lot more non PPs which I am about 55% against, the average should be about coinflip. Isn't that a reasonable way of thinking, ignoring that I'm not necessarily correct to call anyway given the "deep" stacks?

And when I'm posting anyway, I just realised that the BB in the hand should of course have some impact on the calculations. He would probably be extremely tight since he is now almost guaranteed 2nd. How much will a BB with a say 10% range affect this as opposed to me having the decision in the BB with him already folded?