Playing Ax Suited at a LAG Live 3/6 Table...

[CoachBill]

I've been playing at a live 3/6 card room recently. Last night, the table was 8 handed with 3-4 LAGs that were 3-betting or capping with marginal hands. My image was tight, as I actually folded most hands, unlike the rest. I need some help figuring out this hand with the dynamics of this table...

I picked up A6 suited in middle position. 2 limpers, I call, 2 more calls and the big blind raises. Both limper and I call, but the Button raises. He could be slow-playing a big hand or just raising with low suited connectors or trash for fun. The big blind caps it (he is a LAG) and both limpers before me cold call (19 bets). It is very likely that both the caller and button after me will also call 4. Is this a situation where I cold-call 2 bets?

I wanted some views on playing Ax suited against a field of players like this where it can often be 6 players in the pot at 3 or 4 bets each. Is this a +EV situation or not?

A secondary question would be this:

If I do call pre-flop, what do I do if the flop has an Ace, is rainbow with one of my suit (backdoor flush), and it is 27 bets to me (The big blind bet and both limpers called)?

It is likely the button will raise and the Big Blind will re-raise. It could go to 4 bets again and get down to 3 or 4-handed...

Thanks for your input.

[Hielko]

If you play this preflop against lags, do everything you can to see a showdown postflop when you hit the A.

But you should fold preflop. When a lot of pots are capped playing a range of something like JJ+,AKs,AKo is probably the best thing to do. Don't play hands that need implied odds like axs, small pockets and suited connectors.

[KitCloudkicker]

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When a lot of pots are capped playing a range of something like JJ+,AKs,AKo is probably the best thing to do.

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if this is all you're going to be playing you need to switch tables as you're going to be playing about 1 hand an hour if that, and whenever you raise pf everyone will fold. in addition, the blinds will eat you up. finally b/c you've folded so much, if you're lucky enough to get KK/AA in a multiway pot situation, you'll get married to it and pay thru the nose when you lose with it.

all suited broadways and all pockets are fine here because of limplied oods. Axs is usually fine as well as long as there are many people in the pot preflop.

[Hielko]

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When a lot of pots are capped playing a range of something like JJ+,AKs,AKo is probably the best thing to do.

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if this is all you're going to be playing you need to switch tables as you're going to be playing about 1 hand an hour if that, and whenever you raise pf everyone will fold. in addition, the blinds will eat you up. finally b/c you've folded so much, if you're lucky enough to get KK/AA in a multiway pot situation, you'll get married to it and pay thru the nose when you lose with it.

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The one thing that is true is that you are going to play 1 hand an hour. I believe that in some Sklansky book he recommends playing only QQ+ in loose wild games.

[KitCloudkicker]

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The one thing that is true is that you are going to play 1 hand an hour. I believe that in some Sklansky book he recommends playing only QQ+ in loose wild games.

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If you arent putting money in with donkeys if you have an equity edge then you arent maximizing your win. suited broadway cards have an equity edge multiway that is magnified when donkeys are capping PF with ATC. if you arent going to play ATs when people are capping with 32s then you arent playing correctly.

[Hielko]

I'm not saying that you can't add more hands to this range: i'm pretty sure it's not an optimal range. But I think it's a good range for the OP to start with. It's lower variance, easy, safe and probably a lot better then his current strategy.

[Mook]

The problem with games like this, and the reason S&M advocate playing sooooo tight preflop in wild games, is that with the pot so huge, folding becomes a mistake when you catch any reasonable piece of the flop. So you wind up getting stuck in enormous pots, drawing (correctly) to 4 or 5 outs, for 3-4 SB's on the flop, and another 2-3 BB on the turn. It doesn't take many of those to blow through a buy-in.

The best (and only effective) strategy for avoiding ridiculous variance in such games is to sacrifice some small preflop edges by throwing away marginally +EV hands preflop. A6s is just such a hand and I wouldn't play it in this spot given these table dynamics without 60BB or more in your session bankroll. Probably pairs 99 and up, A9s or ATs and up, and AK is a good starting point on a "regular" buy-in IMO.

Mook

[CoachBill]

This definitely was a wild 3/6 table... In 3 hours, I was down 25 BB's. It was my worst session ever. I wasn't connecting with many flops...

Frond: I know this table can be profitable, but what kind of variance have you experienced? In your opinion, what are the most common leaks at a table like this... Why is a hand like 87s not playable against 5-6 players for 2 bets?

Mook: You are right... the pots got so large that in many cases, I was calling/raising with correct odds after catching a piece or draw.

In frustration, I began to play looser in middle position a bit and play hands that are for late position only: Ex. calling with 75s, KTs, QJo, etc... Sometimes, hands weren't being raised pre-flop but 6 or 7 out of 8 players were in, so I began hoping I could hit the flop hard without a raise... There was just so much dead money going in... Sounds like this was the wrong approach... I was gambling that the LAG's wouldn't go "wild" on that hand...

I do need more experience playing at table withs 3+ LAG's... The advice I hear most is to tighten up a lot pre-flop. I re-read the pre-flop section in SSHE and it helped...

Thanks all...

[Boggy Depot]

The key for me in this type of game is whether or not I've been hitting some flops. Math People can say +EV and pot odds are the main (only) consideration but if I'm not hitting flops I don't get into a pot at these types of games without medium pocket pairs or equivalent unless I'm closing the bet and know how much seeing the flop is gonna cost me. Then I'll look with 5-5, Q-Js, Axs, etc. It gets frustrating watching donkeys drag down these monster pots with 9-6os, or seeing that you would have hit runner/runner to win the hand but if you start counting on runner/runner to win then you'll be broke sooner rather than later. Wait till you hit a couple of flops then stick your nose in there a little more often, hoping the poker gods are starting to smile upon you.

It seems there are three types of players at these LAG games: 1) the tight player that sits at the table forever, nursing his stack and pulling down a pot once every hour and a half. 2) The one or two luck boxes who are hitting any two cards they play and have a mountain of chips in front of them, and 3) the twenty or thirty players that sit down, get caught up in the craziness and go broke in an hour and find themselves sitting behind the old-lady at the slot-machines watching her play. If you're not in group two, then be in group one.

[chesspain]

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The key for me in this type of game is whether or not I've been hitting some flops. Math People can say +EV and pot odds are the main (only) consideration but if I'm not hitting flops I don't get into a pot at these types of games without medium pocket pairs or equivalent unless I'm closing the bet and know how much seeing the flop is gonna cost me. Then I'll look with 5-5, Q-Js, Axs, etc. It gets frustrating watching donkeys drag down these monster pots with 9-6os, or seeing that you would have hit runner/runner to win the hand but if you start counting on runner/runner to win then you'll be broke sooner rather than later. Wait till you hit a couple of flops then stick your nose in there a little more often, hoping the poker gods are starting to smile upon you.


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I can't tell if you are kidding or stupid.