One day I will learn how to play 10/20 LO8

HOWMANY · #1 05-14-2007, 10:05 PM

All unknown villains. Didn't feel like playing holdem and there were no good looking other games going so I figured I'd give learning Omaha 8 another try. Flop raise to get sb out yes? Turn call because of maybe best hand plus outs to scoop?

PokerStars 10/20 Omaha/8 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Rush17 · #2 05-14-2007, 10:17 PM

Ehh, I'm not crazy about any of this to be honest. And, depending on how the button plays, I'm not sure I even like the preflop raise. It's a little rough for me with few to no reads.

The flop is rough, imo, too. I know what you were trying to achieve, but that's not a real good flop for you in O8, not to mention that you had no way of knowing how the sb OR the bb was going to react, and now you have put in two bets while still being in the dark with your KK, plus you open up the betting again. You don't need to do this just because you open raised the hand. And, of course, once you get that turn card, you must call.I know some players who raise there, but without the read and not knowing how aggressive he is, I think I'd prefer to play it more cautiously. And I take the river, too.

SweetLuckyMe · #3 05-15-2007, 05:07 PM

You're on the right track.

TxRedMan · #4 05-15-2007, 08:48 PM

Raising this hand preflop is terrible in this spot.

Flop raise is ugly, ugly ugly ugly.

Turn call is standard.

HOWMANY · #5 05-15-2007, 08:58 PM

So this is a muck preflop? Fold flop? Call flop and fold low turns?

hoppscot22 · #6 05-16-2007, 09:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising this hand preflop is terrible in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is definitely not terrible

1MoreFish4U · #7 05-16-2007, 09:33 AM

There are so many better cards to play - I would seldom get involved in a pot with these cards. You have to mix things up - so fine as a one shot, but I have a feeling this is a normal strategy for some of the responders here.

Usually, this is a fold p/f - after that, your chances of losing more money got worse on the flop.

SweetLuckyMe · #8 05-16-2007, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many better cards to play - I would seldom get involved in a pot with these cards. You have to mix things up - so fine as a one shot, but I have a feeling this is a normal strategy for some of the responders here.

Usually, this is a fold p/f - after that, your chances of losing more money got worse on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ] Run that hand against a couple of typical hands in an equity simulation. Run it heads up against A234, A3xx and some other hand that you'd consider raising there with. I think you'll be surprised. This hand actually does well short - the typical hands everyone loves A3xx etc. do well multi-way, but most of them not so well as this one short.

BradleyT · #9 05-16-2007, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Run that hand against a couple of typical hands in an equity simulation. Run it heads up against A234, A3xx and some other hand that you'd consider raising there with. I think you'll be surprised. This hand actually does well short - the typical hands everyone loves A3xx etc. do well multi-way, but most of them not so well as this one short.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it does well hot/cold in simulation but the game isn't played in simulation mode. All simulation hands are overvalued because they include results where the person playing the hand wouldn't have continued. For example you raise and BB calls and the flop is A37r and he has 234J vs. your KKT9. A good part of your "suprisingly well" equity comes from situations like this where in the simulation world KK9T makes it to showdown (and wins) but in the real world this hand isn't making it to showdown in many spots where it would have won.

lucid75 · #10 05-17-2007, 02:54 PM

When you raise w/ this hand preflop, you need to hit a board that fits in very well w/ your hand. Say, generally paint, maybe a spade or two. Paired board isn't horrible either. This flop is maybe one of the worst case scenarios. You have to dodge low and have one pair hold up for potentially half. The safe cards that can come for you that MIGHT make it possible to card are slim. while the cards that scare the [censored] out of you are many, low cards, straightening low cards, a paired low card. Calling on the flop is only reserved for when you have a realllllllllllllllllllly good read on this guy, and then you have to be Neo and dodge bullets for half.