How to Study?

[joeyV123]

Hi, I'm new to this forum/site and new to Hold'em. I've been playing the Bunny tables (.25/50) at Party Poker for about a month now. In that time I've read "Killer Poker Online" by John Vorhaus, "Hold'em Poker" and "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky along with "Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players" by Skansky/Malmuth and "Small Stakes Hold'em" by Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth, and have begun reading "Weighing the Odds in Hold'em" by King Yao.

The problem is that just reading them through doesn't necessarily make me any better a player. I play relatively break even now at Limit .25/.50, though overall I'm down. I can't seem to break even at the higher micro stakes games though, and it seems that I'm always playing against several multi-table players from Germany. In fact it seems the beginner tables at PP are loaded with Germans playing multiple tables! What's up with that?

Anyway, my question is how do I use these books to study? Obviously, just reading them through isn't going to turn me into a winning player. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[btspider]

other than reading materials, its just experience and reading/commenting on vast numbers of hands. same as learning most other skills.

breakeven is the first step. be happy with that. you can learn for free effectively. if you want an easier game, you can always find a site with nano limits to give you cheaper experience.

[HouseCalls]

Rather than read a whole bunch of books one time I would pick one book and read it a bunch of times and I would start with SSH.

Then play, post hands you have questions with here, and most importantly respond to other peoples hands. Don't be afraid to put what you think in your posts. If your wrong you will find out why and how to correct it.

Good Luck

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
Rather than read a whole bunch of books one time I would pick one book and read it a bunch of times and I would start with SSH.

Then play, post hands you have questions with here, and most importantly respond to other peoples hands. Don't be afraid to put what you think in your posts. If your wrong you will find out why and how to correct it.

Good Luck

[/ QUOTE ]

What House said.

Oh and just because Party calls them Beginner Tables doesnt mean they are filled with uberloose fish. I couldnt believe how tight those tables where (at 0.15/0.3 and up) when I played them. Once youve cleared your signup bonus there I suggest you find another site that has softer games. Party poker games arent all they are cracked up to be.....Paradise and Stars 0.25/0.5 games are nice and juicy and a good starting point - plus they have nano limit games that are just as good for learning at.

Try and learn whilst the stakes are cheap and get yourself a nice base before moving up.

welcome to the forums btw

[Smurph64]

I still think the best start book would be Lee Jones book or Ed Miller's book over SSHE.

Unless you think like a 40 year old, egomaniac, like myself, I would really be careful with Vorhaus, I think he is awesome but most people have a hard time if they start thinking killer poker without some idea of preflop and post flop fundamentals.

[RICHI8]

I started off with Lee Jones' book and I regret it. It's too passive. Any book can teach you which hole cards to play but very few books can show you why the TAG minus the AG is useless.

I don't mean to bag on your intelligence, but even though you have read all of those books I doubt you understand the reasoning behind 10% of what the books actually cover. This will come with re-reading and thousands upon thousands of hands.

I know my first time reading SSH my head was spinning. And when I got on the tables a few hours later my head was spinning even more. Read a little SSH, play a little. Read a little SSH, play a little.

You might want to start with Ed Miller's first book if you don't have a lot of hold'em experience. But once you grasp the basic concepts, I say kick the rest of those books to the shelf to collect dust until you have more experience under your belt, or the pages of SSH are ripped from paging through it so much. But even if that happens you may just want to buy it again.

[Zeldark]

I just read HEFAP for about the 4th time. And this last time was definately the most productive than the others. I have come to the realization that book is better read slowly, in parts.

Poker is a complex game, and its strategies can be very situational. If you just read a book like SSHE, and then read through HEFAP or a NL book, the information can sort of "overwrite" each other in your mind. This is bad because you risk applying the wrong concepts at the wrong time, or just forgetting a previously learned concept altogether.

During this last reading of HEFAP, I would read it one section at a time. I think about what they are trying to tell me, and how does this compliment/conflict tactics from SSHE? Do I remember this tactic from the NL books too or is it limit specific? Etc... It's a little slower, but it's not too bad.

Learning Poker is a hobby all by itself.

[MatusowIsBald]

[ QUOTE ]
I started off with Lee Jones' book and I regret it. It's too passive. Any book can teach you which hole cards to play but very few books can show you why the TAG minus the AG is useless.

I don't mean to bag on your intelligence, but even though you have read all of those books I doubt you understand the reasoning behind 10% of what the books actually cover. This will come with re-reading and thousands upon thousands of hands.

I know my first time reading SSH my head was spinning. And when I got on the tables a few hours later my head was spinning even more. Read a little SSH, play a little. Read a little SSH, play a little.

You might want to start with Ed Miller's first book if you don't have a lot of hold'em experience. But once you grasp the basic concepts, I say kick the rest of those books to the shelf to collect dust until you have more experience under your belt, or the pages of SSH are ripped from paging through it so much. But even if that happens you may just want to buy it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever agreed with another post so much in my life. I too started out with Jones' book, which is the main reason I'm here. I'm trying to "relearn" how to play Hold 'Em. I'll never understand why so many people advocate that book. It merely teaches you how to be a VERY passive player. When you use Jones' teachings against aggressive opponents you get absolutely steamrolled. I can't say I lost a lot of many using Jones' methods, but I would routinely play for hours and either break even or lose a little bit.

I also agree with the difficulty with SSH. I've read that book and am re-reading it now and I'm still confused by a lot of it. I think a lot of that has to do with Sklansky being such a mathematical person, whereas I am not by any means. Jones' book is very easy to read and much easier to process than Sklansky's. I will give him that.

I'm still trying to get over the shock of just how different Sklansky and Jones' books are. Oftentimes what would be an automatic fold according to Jones is actually a raise to Sklansky. I only hope I don't confuse myself even more by adopting such a contradictory style.

Long story short though... if I can offer any advice it would be to not get bogged down with reading a ton of books. Or, if you are going to read a lot of books, find an author/style that you like and just read their books. It can be very confusing when you're reading multiple authors when you're starting out. The conflicting information, in my opinion, just isn't worth it.

Good luck and welcome!

[BaseMetal]

I too am new to poker and have been reading lots of books and some of the print may finally have stuck to my figers.

The extra advice I would like to add is if you do not have Poker Tracker or Poker Office get one of them now.

I use PO and I find the replay facility extremely useful for study. Replaying over some of my rubbish plays really makes me want to improve!

Sometimes I even replay earlier hands while still at the table.

Good luck.

[joeyV123]

Thanks for the advice. I realize that retention is an issue when reading so many books in such a short period. I have begun re-reading SSH, plus I have Poker Tracker and have used it, though it's not always clear what it's telling me. Anyway, I'm still under 2.5k raked hands, and another 1k tournament hands and only a month into play for cash, so I suppose I'll be learning quite a bit in the times to come.

I will be lurking and "grunching" from time to time so your likely to see me post again soon. Thanks again.

jv