WA/WB with second pair good kicker?

jeanbaptiste36 · #1 07-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Our villain is 37/0/0.6

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

I took a WA/WB line here. Either he has the Ace or we are
ahead and want to encourage him. Is that correct thinking?

Befolder · #2 07-09-2007, 03:08 PM

Our villain is certainly very passive so his lead doesn't look good at all. So passive you might already be behind two pair or better. I might raise the flop, if he calls, ck through the turn to get to SD and you can fold to a bet on the river I think, unless you improve.

That's one avenue at least. Once my raise is called on the flop, I'd say I'm beaten and I'm not putting another bet in UI.

JJack · #3 07-09-2007, 03:09 PM

For me is standard wa/wb calldown but this donk bet is suspected with so pasive player he can hold weak A or middle pocet i think.

kerowo · #4 07-09-2007, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Our villain is certainly very passive so his lead doesn't look good at all. So passive you might already be behind two pair or better. I might raise the flop, if he calls, ck through the turn to get to SD and you can fold to a bet on the river I think, unless you improve.

That's one avenue at least. Once my raise is called on the flop, I'd say I'm beaten and I'm not putting another bet in UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bona · #5 07-09-2007, 03:23 PM

I think since villain didn't raise preflop we are ahead here a lot. I would raise the flop and see what he does with it. This is the level I play at most and I see lots of people leading out here that missed the flop.

If he reraises or donk/leads the turn we are probably behind.

bravos1 · #6 07-09-2007, 04:42 PM

This is not WA/WB! Even if he has an Ace, you have ~6.5 outs on the flop as long as it is not AK/AQ.

jeanbaptiste36 · #7 07-09-2007, 04:49 PM

Is it just me who is stupid but I can't see more than 5 outs on that flop. Is it our backdoor straight that makes it 6.5 outs, to go. If it's that many then it's a raise.

Befolder · #8 07-09-2007, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me who is stupid but I can't see more than 5 outs on that flop. Is it our backdoor straight that makes it 6.5 outs, to go. If it's that many then it's a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is probably the case. BD draws are typically valued at 1.5 outs.

JJack · #9 07-09-2007, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is not WA/WB! Even if he has an Ace, you have ~6.5 outs on the flop as long as it is not AK/AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh u right ...
so best here is raise passive player?
If he would be agressive player wouldent be better just call down?

jeanbaptiste36 · #10 07-09-2007, 05:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me who is stupid but I can't see more than 5 outs on that flop. Is it our backdoor straight that makes it 6.5 outs, to go. If it's that many then it's a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is probably the case. BD draws are typically valued at 1.5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just to be nit, I did the calculation. If it's the BD that adds 1.5 outs then that's wrong because the BD is singlesided. We first need one of four cards and then another on of four cards on the river. Not one of eight and yet another one of eight. That draw comes in 1.4% of the time so half an out.