[Magellan]

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Magellan, there is no way I can bring myself to do this kind of thing "until she starts talking rape."

I didn't think it was possible that I didn't want to get laid bad enough.

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FFS Doc, I can't believe you are misunderstanding what I'm saying so badly!

(A quick note before I continue: in high school I was too many girls' best friend and speak from experience when I give you advice (I'm not saying I'm a guru on the topic either, just that I've learnt a few things the hard way that could help you out). I have ALWAYS treated women with respect (even a few that deserved none) and would never recommend behaviour that a girl would deem to be sexual assault).

The point I'm trying to make is that this chick seems determined to make you try hard to get into her pants, she seems bound to resist a little (pretty much just to [censored] with you from what I can gather). I'm almost sure that she would be turned on if you could take charge sexually, she has basically told you this on more than one occasion. So, if when you start putting the moves on she brushes your hands off or says something to the effect of "I'm not up for this", that is your cue to try harder and not stop instantly. You will know very quickly how serious her protests are by her response to your determined efforts. My example where I mentioned rape wasn't meant to be taken so literally (which everyone else reading this thread seemed to get), I was just saying don't back down so easily, I don't think she wants you to.

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If you're wrong, and I make the wrong move here after she has TOLD ME to give her time

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Yeah and she has also TOLD YOU plenty of things to the contrary, but you seem to want to keep focusing on the negative messages. You are forging a new discipline I will call "self cock-blockage".

You continually assess this situation in a way that implies that the only person whose thoughts/feelings matter here are hers, why? You're not a robot dude, you don't have to block out everything you feel just because she has a few issues, and she is flat out wrong to expect you to (particularly when she is making some of the comments that she has).

Attraction works on a level that is not all conscious and logical. Although you're being the "nice guy" here, your behaviour isn't triggering the responses in her that you want (and once again, she has said plenty to you about what would do it for her). We're pretty much hard-wired for this stuff, even when you come to realise it you can't just turn off your programmed responses to certain stimuli. If you could just indulge yourself a little, stop trying to be thoughtful and nice as a first priority (no, I'm not saying be a prick) you might be surprised at the results.

Has it occurred to you that if you showed her a "manly/assertive/take charge in the sack" side that the somewhat automatic response it would produce in her would lead to a natural sexual interaction? ie. she would no longer be in "gee, I need to think about how attracted I am to this guy" mode, instead switching to "man, this guy is really turning me on, I might just [censored] his brains out and worry about what comes next later on" mode.

I'm not saying we should all take lessons from wild animals about how to interact with the opposite sex, but in nature is it the timid males who get to mate with the females? Of course not, it's the male who beats up everyone else and then gets to mate with all of the females (please don't take me literally Doc). The point is, while we like to think how superior and evolved we are, we share a lot of basic programming with these other animals whether we consciously realise it or not.

Doc, your situation is nothing short of torturous, how much worse could it get if you really go for it and get shot down? I really doubt it puts and end to the friendship. Worst case is probably that you don't talk/see each other for a bit, then reconcile. FFS, this chick has taunted you with sex, made deals revolving around sex, how mad could she reasonably get at you for having a crack. Yes I know, I know, she told you she needs time, she's also told you to man up and [censored] her, so why don't you?