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Old 10-05-2007, 03:23 PM
Student Caine Student Caine is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 791
Default Re: **Official** uNL Microbrew Thread - October

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Gelford, you are probably right about this. Just looking at other (winning) players' stats in the past, I've noticed that I'm tighter PF and more aggressive post-flop, which I found to be odd. I probably need to tone down my aggression a bit and focus more on pot control.

One odd thing I noticed about my stats is that way back before my downswing (when I was winning) early this year when I was still transitioning from limit to NL (both 6max), I was more of an 18/13 player. Looking at the positional stats, it's clear that I was playing more hands in UTG and MP, and probably the same amount of hands in the CO and BTN.

As I learned, I tightened up significantly in the earlier positions but kept a similar game on the CO and BTN. This obviously gave me nitty PF stats, but at the same time, should have put me in a better position to win money. I'm not sure what my point is here, but it's an observation I just had.

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I have been thinking about something for a while, but I am not totally sure how correct it is, so take it for what it is worth.

I believe that as we move up the ladder to greatness one of the biggest stumbling points that we all hit is how to play the turn (i.e., turn aggression). I see the PT stats for winning players and their Turn AF is like damn near even with their flop aggression. But when I try to get there I spew like a mad junket.

I think that we as "accomplished apprentices" or "budding journeyman" players do a reasonably good job with our preflop and postflop play (though I think some of us, myself included, have a slight issue with not understanding the full impact of how preflop and postflop play are interrelated), and we really kind of fall on our face on the turn. I am amazed at how many players, even in the mid stakes, that I see with a flop AF of 3.00+ and a turn AF of 1.00-...with a cbet % of 80%+ and a tcbet % of 30%-

Turn aggression is key, but the trick becomes knowing how and when to be aggressive and I think it is more crucial than say flop aggression because the bets and pots are so much larger at this point that we stand to win/lose more
on the Turn.

What is really strange to me is that most books that I have read spend a lot of time talking about preflop and postflop play and then say "the turn and river play themselves" or "by now you know where you are..." almost taking a fit or fold approach that they warned us not to take on the flop. Maybe this is correct, or maybe the game has evolved to a point where the bulk of the players have solid pre and post flop play so now the turn is crucial...I really do not know.

I really don't know how to help you fix the turn aggression because I don't have it figured out myself, but I think it is a really, really important place to look.