[kidcolin]

To some degree I agree with you. A lot of it depends on the system. For example, some of Rips #s, like his FTA/game (or 48 or whatever) are hurt because he plays on the slowest team in basketball. But the rate numbers, like Rebound Rate, take possessions into account. So those are still a bit damning. Note that Manu plays on one of the slowest teams as well, and he still tears up the glass, playing alongside Timmah, nonetheless. Philly's a pretty slow team, too.

Kevin Martin, though, played on a really fast team (4th in the league), so maybe I'll have to think about that some more. On the other hand, the power battle between Artest and Bibby probably prevented the ball from getting to Martin more than it should.

Also, regarding the "doesn't need the ball" argument. I like that argument for guys Marion and Gerald Wallace. For Rip, though he might not need the ball, he needs a bunch of screens and plays called for him. This isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, I don't think. It depends. I just want to point out it can be a little deceiving to say that.

In Rip's case, I'm a huge fan of the curl play at the elbow they call for him. I'm not a huge fan of any play where he's running through a ton of back screens to get him the ball (too many guys standing around just setting picks).