[Nielsio]

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The number of things I think we "need" a state for a very small (and diminishing).

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Needing a state implies choosing a state. Is the state voluntary or coercive?

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Both? Once enough people volunteer to assist it, it coerces the rest? Not sure what you mean, but I was merely responding to Borodog who seemed to think I was advocating a state because we need to be protected from a whole host of things.

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People act according to their values. So when you say that there is a need for the state, then you are implying that it is a business. If people needed the state, then why does the state need to coerce people? Does not the fact that all the things the state does (propaganda, lies, threats, violence) to pull off what it does show that it is the opposite of what you are saying? That the degree to which we are forced is the degree that we *don't* want it.

So what I'm doing here is attacking your unspoken premise, namely that it's a voluntary organization. What others would do, like Boro, is to question those supposed needs, and compare them to the market mechanism. But I don't accept your basic premise; namely that the state provides something people want, and then they choose it.