[baggins]

[ QUOTE ]
No non-christian scholars believe that 'jesus of the bible' existed ... Or Else They Would Be Christians.

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while this stands to reason, it proves nothing.

if a Non-believing Scholar came upon the evidence, and was thereby convinced and 'converted' he would cease to be a Non-believing Scholar. While your statement would still be 'true', it's intended meaning would be completely undermined.

It is pretty well established that the Historical Person Jesus existed, and that the texts which we get our current Bible from are Historically accurate - that is, they were written when they were supposed to have been written, and the events they relate happened in the Author's lifetime, or at least when the texts were written.

The part that most laypersons like to debate is the accuracy of the events they describe. the problem is the circular reasoning used to refute these events, and the disconnection between our time period and that of these events. there simply are no eyewitnesses alive today.

"circular reasoning?" you ask. well, yes. this is obviously a simplified form of the discussion, but i think it's quite circular.

the events under the greatest scrutiny and dispute are the Miracles described in the bible. the skeptic approaches with Scientific analysis, and says that these things couldn't possible have occurred, they are Scientifically impossible! but, i don't think this is sufficient grounds to dismiss. of COURSE they are Scientifically impossible. that's why they're called MIRACLES. there have been plenty of times in history where things occurred that couldn't have been explained up until that moment.

so who are we to believe? scientists of today who weren't there and dismiss most of the bible because of the impossible miracles? or the eyewitnesses who wrote about the miraculous things they saw because they were so spectacular?

obviously the answer to this question lies with Faith. where do you put your faith? this isn't a black-and-white question either. it's not God vs. Science or anything like that (false dichotomies get us into a lot of trouble, it seems...). Do you believe in God? does that mean you can't believe in Science? (hopefully not)

i don't like discussion threads like these, they tend to go nowhere, and very rarely do people actually engage each other's intellect. usually just a lot of smug arguing at each other. i just felt i had to say my piece.