[Rduke55]

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Oral histories of gays are very telling.

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No, not really. Few people can understand and control the basis of their urges, many of which arise from something as simple a childhood experience, or wiring that gets crossed during childhood between affection and sexual attraction toward males. Why do you think it's often stated that males tend to be attracted to people like their mothers? Conditioning. And that's in normal individuals.

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Time after time in coming out stories people describe their desperate attempts to be straight, often lasting for decades. For them, it's clearly of biological origin.

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By this reasoning, child molesting is also biologically based. Yet you don't hear many people advocating that idea, even though it would be significantly more "evolutionary fit" than gayness.

The fact is that our brains are so advanced, and go through such a long period of haphazard development, that all kinds of things can get screwed up and crossed and confused, regardless of your genes. Putting it down entirely or mostly to genes (which the evidence does not support) is taking away from where the responsibility usually lies - which is with the individual.

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Phil, I don't want to get too far off track, but based on our discussions the above statements seem very much at odds with your views on neurobiology and human behavior. For example, I'm very interested in why you attribute a big role for environmental influences in development of sexual attraction and none (or close to it) for intelligence, brain size, etc.