[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Read Ball Four where Jim Bouton openly discusses the use of greenies (or "ability pills") and theoretical PEDs that most of the players he talked to said they would take.


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a huge number of baseball players were taking greenies back then. what Bonds did w/ steroids went far beyond what most other players were doing. You can't just lump the 2 things into the same category. and again, you can't just deal in hypotheticals, and assign guilt where none is due, to explain away what Bonds did.

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This isn't about Bonds. This is about the ultra-competitive nature of sports, especially when you're talking about the top guys. It's very hard to make it to the top of a sport without being very competitive. At that point you're either cheating (bonds, mcgwire, sosa) or gambling (rose, jordan, gretzky).

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This is the "***OFFICIAL BONDS USED STEROIDS THREAD***", so I do think it's about Bonds. I don't see how this story is really about how "you need to be competive to succeed". While I agree with this general statement, it really is a tangential issue here. So what if all guys are competitive? Does that make it ok for them to go to extraordinary lengths to cheat, and then lie about it in a federal grand jury? This extraordinary effort that Barry Bonds went through to use and conceal his use - far beyond what 99% of other athletes go to - is the story here.