[Anacardo]

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This is probably a lost cause thanks to the awfulness of the OP, but I wonder if by heroic effort this thread can somehow be turned to the conversation I wanted to have, i.e. pragmatism vs. idealism and their interactions with each other, as applied to PUA, and not the conversation we're doomed to have, i.e., Cardo and Cardo [censored].

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cardo i like you but this makes no goddamn sense.

i have no idea how pragmatism or idealism apply here. unless you're saying that an idealist hopes that some chick notices how good he is at fencing and they develop a rapport and eventually start [censored], whereas a pragmatist is ensuring he establishes kino within two minutes on all the bar chicks he's relentlessly hitting on.

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My point is this.

Take this argument, with its two kinda-fake-but-still-kinda real sides. Strip all the logical fallacies and name-calling and [censored] and I still perceive the essential core of an argument that basically goes like this.

PUAs - "Look, get real. This is what works, this is what the world is like, this is how it is."
Nerds - "But it's wrong!"

Even after you sort out all the [censored] you're still left with this, and they're both cases with merit.

This argument is old as time and has a thousand different faces. Pragmatism vs. idealism, being a man of the world vs. being a saint, being 'successful' vs. being 'pure,' etc. etc. ad infinitum. It's the contest between... the one word I know to describe it is 'arete,' a Greek word meaning, essentially, 'commitment to excellence,' and the concept of virtue found in Christianity and various other big-time religions. They've been shouting at each other for thousands of years, and that's what I see here, too. I have always been naturally inclined towards the latter side of the fence, but I think true wisdom comes from a synthesis of both of them, and that's really, really hard to achieve.