[shaniac]

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There are way better NLHE tournament players than hellmuth under the age of 25. At LEAST 10.

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thread is worthless w/out list of players jimmy

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Just offhand, there are a LOT more players that have been left out of this list:

Imperium
Zeejustin
Steve Paul-Ambrose
TheNewf/SirWatts
RandAllin
Thayer
JSchnett
mlagoo
Aaron Been
Kush Patel
ActionJeff
Alex Jacob
Carl Olson

These are just a few people who I believe absolutely crush tournaments and have way more understanding of NLHE and tournament strategy than Hellmuth. I left a lot of talent off the list but these are just a few names who are going to come out a lot in the next few years. Note that two of the people on the list are 18.

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This list is a joke Gobbo, as is your usual assessment of older pros, whom you love to trash, versus the younger talents that you love to glorify.

Of the people on the list I've played with, I agree that most of them are awesome players and understand the game very well, but your assertion that they "have way more understanding" than Hellmuth is so baseless, I'm amazed you have the chutzpah to state it as fact. How many big buyin tournaments have you played in total? You realize that the way you hype up young online players as being necessarily superior to the more seasoned pros is as subjectively biased and absurd as all the people who dote on Hellmuth, right?

There is no list that can accurately assess "talent" in a game whose outcome is primarily determined by luck, and there is no possible way to realistically compare skill until you've played with lots of different players in different scenarios, which you haven't. You have a woody for Aaronbeen, because you know that he's really sharp and capable of crushing NL tournaments, but that doesn't mean Aaron Been is better than Phil Hellmuth!

Fwiw, my list of the best NLHE tourney players right now (based on experiences, my perception, their results, what I think they're doing out there) would include, but not be limited to:

JC Tran,
Nam Le,
Allen Cunningham,
The Grinder,
Danny Wong,
Cory Carroll,
Phil Hellmuth
Alex Jacob,
Tim West,
JC Alvarado,
Jesse Martin,
Jordan Morgan,
David Pham,
Sorel Mizzi,
Haralabos Voulgaris,
...literally dozens of others....

Please note that the list doesn't include anyone I haven't played a fair amount with, or observed a lot, or talked about the game with a lot in the last year, and that I'm also pretty good friends with about half the people there. Lists in poker are stupid.