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Old 07-27-2007, 06:52 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Default Re: is it better to fold pre-flop in an easy game w/ jacks?

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Maybe it has been replied before, but in a cashgame you should never pass a profitable spot.

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This is not correct. That's why I said, "in general" but posted an exception.

You can't buy in for however much you want. If a fish has 300 BB, and you can only buy in for 100 BB, don't take a 500 BB coin-flip for your whole stack which expects to gain 1 BB. You expect to be able to use the chips from 100 to 300 BB more profitably than you expect to use the chips from 700 to 900 BB, so in that case, the chip value is sublinear, and you should be risk averse.

That said,

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] People are very bad at recognizing which edges are small. Poker players are used to asking what the right play is, not seriously considering how right it is. Modern backgammon players tend to have a much better idea of how right a play is due to objective numerical feedbaack from computer programs, and I think that's part of the reason it's relatively easy for us to learn to play poker well. When people say they are passing up a small edge, they are often passing up a big edge.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Most of the time, chip value is very close to linear, which means you should not be passing up edges.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] At times, you should be happy to gamble. The chip value may be superlinear, or you may be able to set up a better combination of stack sizes. If there is one good player with a deep stack behind you, taking a marginal gamble against this player can make much more profitable situation. Either you cripple him, or your stack is reduced to an amount where his deep stack is not as much of a threat to taking the rest of the table's money.

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This only makes sense in a tournament. For example you are a 55% favorite now and the next two hands, but you have to go allin. You will not bust out of the tournament in these three hands 5 out of 6 times if you take all these edges!


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This is very misleading. You should almost always be happy to get your chips in as a 55-45 favorite in a tournament. There was a mediocre article on this in the 2+2 Internet Magazine, and a better one in CardPlayer earlier. You have a significant chance to bust out, but you will be in a poor position to win the tournament or even cash if you fold. Your tournament is always on the line, even if you fold. The risks of blinding down, or not having enough chips to take advantage of a later situation are less obvious than the risk of busting out immediately, but they are still there and are usually about as important.

Fossilman said that if you knowingly give up a 60:40 edge, you're not a good player. However, people erroneously believe that by giving up large edges, they will somehow become good players.

Cue the chimpanzee to jump in and scream that I'm wrong about everything because I've said something counterintuitive, hence worth saying.
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