[doucy]

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Regarding the driving rants, I submit people who don't get out into the intersection sufficiently to allow a second car to get into the queue so they can legally turn when the light turns red. Most intersections in Phoenix allow for turning on green (no red left turn arrows) and the arrows come before, so when it turns red there's no excuse when two more cars don't clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I've seen an accident occur when the light turned red for one direction but stayed green for the other direction. Ever since then I've been a little paranoid about pulling this maneuver. So I'm sorry if I piss you off.